East Bayfront / West Don Lands / Regent Park / Don Mills RT

[EnviroTO]

I mentioned this under Toronto Issues in a thread about the Waterfront Plan but decided to move it here since this ties into Transit more although the Transit EA is being done by the TWRC. Here is my suggestion for the TWRC Transit EA:

If the West Don Lands plan has a TTC row on Cherry, Cherry continues into the portlands, Cherry turns into Sumach north of King, and Sumach will be completely rebuilt and intensified from Shuter to Gerrard then I think they should have the streetcar run from Broadview station to Union Station via West Donlands and East Bayfront using Sumach and Cherry. As a future phase they could integrate it with a Don Mills LRT with the connection at Castle Frank.

PHASE 1: Union Station, existing tunnel to Queens Quay, new ROW on Queens Quay East, new ROW on Cherry, new ROW on Sumach, existing mixed traffic on Gerrard, existing mixed traffic on Broadview, Broadview station.

PHASE 2: Union Station, existing tunnel to Queens Quay, phase 1 ROW on Queens Quay East, phase 1 ROW on Cherry, phase 1 ROW on Sumach, new tunnel (two blocks) to Bayview and River St, ROW on Bayview, Castle Frank station with loop below the Prince Edward Viaduct and escalator from loop to station.

PHASE 3: Extend route along the Don Valley corridor route currently being studied (i.e. Bayview, Redway, Millwood, Overlea, Don Mills, Don Mills Station).

 

[badga416]

Re: East Bayfront / West Don Lands / Regent Park / Don Mills

I don't think Sumach/Cherry between Eastern and Shuter could support a Streetcar ROW. It's very narrow along that part. North of Shuter and south of Eastern will be/is wide enough.

 

[shawnmicallef]

Re: East Bayfront / West Don Lands / Regent Park / Don Mills

Could become a transit only street. And ped and bikes. I like this route.

 

[drum118]

Re: East Bayfront / West Don Lands / Regent Park / Don Mills

Will not work and not under consideration. Bring your ideas out to the public workshop on the April 5th for the waterfront EA and state yor case.

Queen Quay to Cherry St is Phase I in its own ROW. Cherry St will have an ROW south of the Lakeshore. Cherry St North to King St will be in mix traffic.

Depending on the Don Mills EA, Cherry Street line would go up Bayview or Broadview.

Broadview would continue south of Queen St to the Portland’s.

King cars from the west would use Cherry St only as you cannot turn an east bound car at that intersection.

Parliament St Streetcar tracks would be rebuilt to connect with Castle Frank Station and the Portland’s

Carlaw would see the return of Streetcars running from Pape Station to the Portland’s.

There is a possible of an LRT line on the Lakeshore and Eastern Ave.

LRT plan for Commissioners and Unwin as well Leslie St in their own ROW.

Union Station is to be total rebuilt at a cost of $500 million

Take a look at the roads and intersections first hands to see if they can support an ROW or a line in mix traffic in the first place.

I got 200 pictures to say otherwise were new LRT lines can and cannot go. What looks good on a map and what it looks like in real life are two different things. I know one of my ideas got shot down along with a few other things proposed by the EA by visiting the intersections and walking the routes.

There is a master plan being develop now to cover all LRT’s lines south of Queen from York St to Victoria Ave including north-south routes along with the east-west routes.

LRT’s lines for both the West Don Lands and the East Bayfront are on the table now.

 

[EnviroTO]

Re: East Bayfront / West Don Lands / Regent Park / Don Mills

If Sumach between King and Shuter could not handle streetcars, perhaps as mentioned above, then the streetcar could run on River St north of King and still catch the eastern edge of the Regent Park redevelopment. With Cherry between the railway and King being completely rebuilt and with Sumach between Shuter and Gerrard being completely rebuilt there are no real obstacles to ROWs on these routes with the issue remaining Sumach between King and Shuter.

Will not work and not under consideration.

I agree that it isn't under consideration currently but don't agree that it will not work. Whether it works or not is dependent on the parameters you measure by and the constraints you impose. With expropriation and engineering options available a flat out "will not work" statement without any reasoning behind that makes little sense at all. Are you so certain that it will not work that if I hired engineers to draw up a plan to do it you would cover their costs in a bet?

Cherry St North to King St will be in mix traffic.

Strange because the West Don Lands Precinct Plan mentions an exclusive streetcar ROW on Cherry between a loop just north of the railway bridge to King St. Did they throw that out? I thought the TTC policy was going to be no new streetcars in mixed traffic.

Depending on the Don Mills EA, Cherry Street line would go up Bayview or Broadview.

That would be a shame because I doubt there will be as much redevelopment along Broadview and the passenger catchment area of both Broadview and Bayview are partially limited by the river. I would think the Regent Park redevelopment would provide a more compelling catchment area to draw ridership from.

King cars from the west would use Cherry St only as you cannot turn an east bound car at that intersection.

I find that counter intuitive because the sharpest turn of the intersection is between the west and the south and the most gradual turn is between the east and the south. How can a streetcar handle the sharper turn and not the more gradual one?

 

[interchange42]

Re: East Bayfront / West Don Lands / Regent Park / Don Mills

It's time that we more seriously consider some European solutions - for example, ones that Amsterdam has instituted in its core - for their potential applicability here. Essentially Amsterdam has channelized everything, and it seems to work very smoothly. That means that many streets are now divided into separate paths for private vehicles, streetcars, bicycles, and pedestrians, and because many streets are narrow, they do this with one-way pairs where need be. If we have some Right-of-Way width problems in some spots, we may need to be more creative with the solutions.

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