"Downtown Core Line" - Possible Alignments?

[Fresh Start]

We really need closely spaced stops through the central downtown. I think with spacing like this we could do away with the need for the 504 car through that area:

I looked a lot at Google Earth when choosing stops locations and might have the most stops proposed for such a line (16 south of Bloor-Danforth). Stops in these precise locations would maximise daily though usage and provide a real alternative to YUS to a large segment of downtown visitors

 

[dunkalunk]

Reading a bunch of these posts, I've decided to modify my alignment preference slightly:
Parkside-Rail-King-Wellington-Front-Rail-Pape

Route Justification
The western alignment past King has the advantage of being built at relatively low cost in comparison to the rest of the line, being sandwiched between King/The Queensway and the Rail corridor.

Another thing that is unique about my alignment is the placement of two stations within the YUS loop; a western Station at York which would handle most transfers to Union Train Station and the Spadina Line and an Eastern Station between Bay and Yonge which would handle more pssengers in the financial District and transfers to the Yonge Line.

Having the alignment on Wellington would also encourage more people to walk to Union instead of taking the YUS for one stop.

The Western alignment is pretty straightforward for a Wellington alignment, and I don't see much contention with it.

I left provisions for two possible stations: one at Howard Park and one at the Don River. I can't see the land around the streetcar loop intensifying much, or for this to be a major transfer point to the streetcar until the DRL is extended northward.

There is also nothing currently around Don Lands for people to go to, however, dense development could easily be built around this station. I could also see it as a transfer point for the Richmond Hill GO line.

Streetcar Changes
Some King streetcars could be moved to the Queen line, which could use higher frequency service. It is my hope that at this point, the Queen streetcar would receive higher-order service with limited left turns, very high signal priority, and a dedicated lane during rush hours. King would then become a more major East-West auto conduit in the west end.

I have also proposed new streetcars on Dufferin, Parliament, and in the Port Lands

During construction, the King Streetcar would need to be rerouted on Shaw and Queen Streets to allow for DRL construction

Construction
This is how the line would likely be constructed with screenlines across the route

--Keele--
Open Pit
--Wilson Park Road--
Shallow Cut and Cover
--Clarence Square-- (TBM Starting Shaft)
Twin-Bored Tunnel
--Sherbourne Street--
Shallow Cut and Cover
--Cherry Street--
Underground-Elevated Transition
--Don River--
Bridge
--[DVP]--
Rail Embankment/Elevated
--Carlaw and Gerrard--
Elevated-Underground Transition (Demolition and Reconstruction of Riverdale Shopping Centre)
--Pape--
Shallow Cut and Cover
--Danforth--

Tunnel Boring Machines would be used to construct the tunnel underneath the existing path system, the rail gauge of the TBM will match the gauge of the constructed line to simplify extraction. If standard gauge is chosen, both machines could be transported to the starting location by a temporary rail spur built off the Kingston Subdivision near the studio district. The TBM could then be used for other subway projects in the GTA, (ex, Eglinton LRT)

I hope you guys like the proposal!

 

[M II A II R II K]

It needs to go all the way up to Steeles East, to be more of a Yonge Relief line and not just downtown and act as an Eastern equivalent of the Spadina Line. Plus those who would use that line from the York Region would probably go all the way down to Union and transfer to get up to Dundas instead of bothering to transfer twice through the Danforth Subway.

 

[nfitz]

It needs to go all the way up to Steeles East, to be more of a Yonge Relief line and not just downtown and act as an Eastern equivalent of the Spadina Line.

How do you conclude that? The work that Metrolinx and TTC did last year showed that a simple Danforth to Yonge connection would result in far less traffic at Bloor-Yonge in 20 years time, than it has today. I have no doubt that it can easily be justified all the way north to Eglinton ... but I don't see that it would provde much relief north of that; and would likely just become an underutilized piece of subway that would be better served by LRT or BRT.

Plus those who would use that line from the York Region would probably go all the way down to Union and transfer to get up to Dundas instead of bothering to transfer twice through the Danforth Subway.

I'd think that anyone coming down from York Region directly to Union would be more likely to use GO. Union carries a lot of traffic because it's such a major GO station, but I can't imagine that as a destination for non-GO related trips, that it as significant as King, Queen, etc.

 

[Second_in_pie]

I think Finch is really as far as the DRL needs to go in the East. Real RT up Don Mills would in fact be a good addition, and it would continue to connect Sheppard with Finch and Seneca College by RT.

 

[nfitz]

I think Finch is really as far as the DRL needs to go in the East.

$500 million of LRT from Eglinton to Finch ... or $2.5-billion for subway. Unless the demand is there, I think this one is clear. And I say this as a regular on the 25 for much of that distance.

 

[Second_in_pie]

And when you say that, you mean $1.2 billion for a RT connection to the largest college in the country and a real RT line for one of the densest corridors in the city, right? That will fill a sizable in the transit grid through that area and attract more high density development and probably convert many riders? We are talking about the same line, right?

 

[gweed123]

$500 million of LRT from Eglinton to Finch ... or $2.5-billion for subway. Unless the demand is there, I think this one is clear. And I say this as a regular on the 25 for much of that distance.

Or $105 million for BRT. You seem to always want to neglect that option...

 

[nfitz]

And when you say that, you mean $1.2 billion for a RT connection to the largest college in the country and a real RT line for one of the densest corridors in the city, right? That will fill a sizable in the transit grid through that area and attract more high density development and probably convert many riders? We are talking about the same line, right?

I was talking about the 8 km of Don Mills LRT from Eglinton to Finch. I'm actually not sure what you are just referring to ... 8 km of LRT doesn't cost $1.2 billion.

Isn't the largest college campus in the country the Southern Alberta Institute of Technology? Isn't the largest in Toronto the Humber College north campus? I guess that is (on the Finch West line.

Densest corridor in the City? Isn't that Yonge Street?

I'm confused, do you think I'm talking about the Finch West LRT? Why the riddles.

 

[Second_in_pie]

No, I'm talking about a subway from Eglinton to Finch along Don Mills. Seneca College is the largest college in Canada, though it's campuses are split up. However, that still makes campus at Finch one of the largest in the country. And I said it's one of the densest, not the densest. Don't read it wrong because you want it to be wrong.

 

[nfitz]

Or $105 million for BRT. You seem to always want to neglect that option...

$13-million a kilometre for BRT? That's really optimistic. We'll see what the estimates are for the Kingston Road BRT that should be presented later this year.

The Metrolinx VIVA project for comparison is $1.4 billion for only 35 kilometres. About $40-million per kilometre. If Don Mills Road can be done for that it's $320 million rather than $105 million.

However, if demand is in the 2,000 to 4,000 range then that might well be suitable.

 

[rbt]

Or $105 million for BRT. You seem to always want to neglect that option...

I'm not sure how BRT can take less space than LRT. $150M of the funds are for land expropriations.

 

[Dan416]

I'm not sure how BRT can take less space than LRT. $150M of the funds are for land expropriations.

There's always the option of just taking away lanes from cars.


As for the alignment I chose, it wasn't detailed and wasn't meant to be. I just followed the rail corridor as much as possible, as I already stated.

 

[Mapleson]

If you just take a lane away from cars, you'll add 50% more congestion to the road (assuming 3 to 2 lane reduction) and there's a fair possibility that those idling cars outnumber the riders on the transit, so you've achieved an overall worse commute and environmental impact. This is about servicing all our communities needs, not just the ones that we care about.

 

[fanoftoronto]

If you just take a lane away from cars, you'll add 50% more congestion to the road (assuming 3 to 2 lane reduction) and there's a fair possibility that those idling cars outnumber the riders on the transit, so you've achieved an overall worse commute and environmental impact. This is about servicing all our communities needs, not just the ones that we care about.

This is what is going to happen in the eastern leg of the Eglinton LRT.
Now: 2 lanes plus carpool lane each way
2020: 1 LRT ROW, 2 lanes each way

It's one of the main reasons I dislike the LRT, they take away car lanes but they probably aren't going to take as many cars off the road.