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Do you think Scarborough will shake off its negative reputation any time in the near future?

^ Suburban gentrification? Why would suburban areas with no character gentrify?

"Suburban gentrification" of Scarborough will likely occur via people moving in due to being priced out of adjacent more expensive neighborhoods. The gentrification aspect happens organically when there is new life in the neighborhood. This, in turn, spawns the new character of the neighborhood.
 
It's interesting that in NYC the most "alienated" borough is predominantly white Staten Island, while multicultural Scarborough is the most "alienated" part of Toronto.

Isn't a big contributing factor to Staten Island being overlooked or alienated its geographical distance as an island and connection to New Jersey? Plus, Staten Island is far smaller in population, and less dense than any other part of NYC.

On the other hand, Scarborough's population share (about as much as North York's, with both boroughs not having that much fewer people than the Old City's) should theoretically have given it more sway relative to Staten Island's situation.
 
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Another thing about Scarborough is that it doesn't really have a "better half", like Etobicoke (south of Eglinton or the 401) or North York (east of the Allen) do. That may contribute to the perception of Scarborough.
 
Another thing about Scarborough is that it doesn't really have a "better half", like Etobicoke (south of Eglinton or the 401) or North York (east of the Allen) do. That may contribute to the perception of Scarborough.

I'd say it does. It's not a half, more like a sliver. But virtually everything south of Kingston Road in Scarborough is higher end housing.
 
I would suggest as with many above that these things are cyclical.

The largest chunks of Scarborough, south of the 401 and west of roughly Markham Rd. were built out between 1940-1965.

That housing was first home to veterans and their young families, post WWII and created a fairly idyllic 50's vision of the place.......where the Royal family was there to open the Golden Mile and later the enclosed Eglinton Square.

There was lots of industry (GM had a van plant where the large Cineplex and associated plaza now site on Eglinton).

Broadly the area was seen as cleaner, newer, more futuristic (yes)...... and of course family-friendly.

The families that moved in in 1965, at lets say age 25 are now 75 years old.

The kids have left long ago, and the grand kids visit now.

Of course there's been turnover in the meantime, but as the typical resident aged, and the neighbourhood style fell out of fashion.....and some of the middle-class jobs dried up and left....

The area fell into relative (not absolute) decline.

Fixed-income, older residents are not typically club goers, those looking for a Whole Foods to shop at, or the like.

They also often moved to the area because of its car orientation, something that was once highly sought after, and never placed a premium on walkability.

*****

As that older generation passes on, and/or sells, the opportunity for change presents itself.

Clearly not for the entire area at once, as I noted that Scarborough north of the 401 and in the farther east sections has materially different demos, from diff. time periods and so the whole community will not shift as one.

That said.......the shift is already underway, but not yet at a critical-mass stage that will broadly influence public perceptions.

Have a look at the north side of Kingston Road running west from Victoria Park.

Once, mostly bungalows.......not bad, per say, if a tad non-descript....

Just north of a fairly affluent section of Scarborough.....yet you could have been forgiven for not knowing, based on the way Kingston Rd. itself looked.

Today, a couple of condo projects have been completed, but another 3 or so are underway or about to be.

By and large these will add retail to Kingston Rd, created a more attractive and pedestrian-friendly streetscape and be occupied by a greater range of age demographics, including some area empty-nesters will then be freeing up their own houses/streets for a refresh.

Other areas will have greater challenges where there is/was no history of a town centre or mainstreet retail around which to building a community vision/reputation.

But this too can be done, it will require investments like 'Eglinton Connects' combined with some very large scale redevelopments, particularly fronting Eglinton and Lawrence.

I expect you will see some of this........in the years ahead............but we aren't there just yet.

Wait for 2022 or so, with the Crosstown phase 1 completed, and associated streetscape works........then you just need that first developer to pull the trigger and so with a worthy idea to get the dominos
falling.

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Specifically on Malvern its lack of connected-ness to the surrounding area is a problem.......as is that antiquated mini-mall that functions as 'town centre'.

The mall needs to be replaced by something that looks more like Main Street retail, with mid-rises framing the stores and anchored by a decent supermarket.

As to the road grid, I'm not sure how you fix that, at reasonable cost.

My instinct is that Tapscott should be straightened and ended in a T at an extended Sewells; while Sewells should be straighted in the east taking over a portion of the McLevin alignment.

But that is hideously expensive looking, and I'm not sure the return on investment is there. But you need roads that create efficient trips through and to places so that the area feel a part of the larger community.

Perhaps some more modest changes can be made to create that feeling.
 
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Not sure where you could really gentrify. Maybe some plazas? There are some low rise townhomes, but there haven't been any major 'gang' issues or stuff like that.

In terms of reputation, I doubt it very much. It will IMO take about 10 years for any desirability as I predict the hipsters and millennials in their mid 20s today, when they get desperate to settle down in 10 years, Scarborough will provide a relative close and affordable option. They don't have as much of a negative association as those a generation ahead since Scarborough's gang violence and shootings have subsided in the last 6+ year.

But at the end of the day, with all those high rises, and darker coloured ethnic group in the Lawrence/Ellesmere/Eglinton (don't even try to debate this), it will be difficult to shake that negative image and revert it to an image of higher educated, higher class, desired neighbourhood. Particularly where you would want your lighter coloured skinned children to attend with.
 
Not sure where you could really gentrify. Maybe some plazas? There are some low rise townhomes, but there haven't been any major 'gang' issues or stuff like that.

In terms of reputation, I doubt it very much. It will IMO take about 10 years for any desirability as I predict the hipsters and millennials in their mid 20s today, when they get desperate to settle down in 10 years, Scarborough will provide a relative close and affordable option. They don't have as much of a negative association as those a generation ahead since Scarborough's gang violence and shootings have subsided in the last 6+ year.

Now I'm visualizing some hipsters priced out of the other parts of the city moving into those tower blocks in Scarborough and gentrifying all those little "ethnic" mom-and-pop shops -- imagine the hipsters browsing the plazas for clothes and trinkets, munching on a roti roll or eating from a styrofoam takeout container and commenting on the coolness and authenticity of it all, while the shops close one by one as the old-timers pack their bags and leave. Imagine an upscale Golden Mile or perhaps a Whole Foods or some hipster joints going up in Bridlewood Mall or Malvern Town Centre!
 
Now I'm visualizing some hipsters priced out of the other parts of the city moving into those tower blocks in Scarborough and gentrifying all those little "ethnic" mom-and-pop shops -- imagine the hipsters browsing the plazas for clothes and trinkets, munching on a roti roll or eating from a styrofoam takeout container and commenting on the coolness and authenticity of it all, while the shops close one by one as the old-timers pack their bags and leave. Imagine an upscale Golden Mile or perhaps a Whole Foods or some hipster joints going up in Bridlewood Mall or Malvern Town Centre!

That's an amusing image.

Here's a real question it prompts though.....

Does Scarborough have an area w/enough critical mass of higher-end wealth around which it could sustain the kind of shopping district a Whole Foods might locate in?

My inkling is that the answer is no. As discussed elsewhere, there is substantial wealth in much, though not all of the slim band of real estate between Kingston Rd. and the Lake, up till almost Lawrence.

But its a thin, long, stretch.

I think the Kingston Rd. stretch from Vic. Park to Birchmount might offer the greatest opportunity......

Or maybe the section up by Midland.

But in both cases, we're still some years away.
 
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As discussed elsewhere, there is substantial wealth in the much, though not all of the slim band of real estate between Kingston Rd. and the Lake, up till almost Lawrence.

But its a thin, long, stretch.

I think the Kingston Rd. stretch from Vic. Park to Birchmount might offer the greatest opportunity......

Or maybe the section up by Midland.

But in both cases, we're still some years away.

Agreed on Vic Park to Birchmount - there's at least 7 condos being built now in this stretch. In 5-6 years when all of them are done (and more proposed) there should be enough people to keep Kingston road (east and west of VP) more vibrant and with better shopping/eating options.

You can also see it happening. There's a new coffee shop near Kingston road and Warden and also a flower shop which are very upscale. It a small start, but I think we're seeing the beginnings of extending the density, wealth (and urbanity) outwards into Scarborough along Kingston road. That's why I'm moving there ;)
 
Now I'm visualizing some hipsters priced out of the other parts of the city moving into those tower blocks in Scarborough and gentrifying all those little "ethnic" mom-and-pop shops -- imagine the hipsters browsing the plazas for clothes and trinkets, munching on a roti roll or eating from a styrofoam takeout container and commenting on the coolness and authenticity of it all, while the shops close one by one as the old-timers pack their bags and leave. Imagine an upscale Golden Mile or perhaps a Whole Foods or some hipster joints going up in Bridlewood Mall or Malvern Town Centre!

Funny thing is it's these 22-25 yr old hipsters that are in abundance on King/Queen/Dundas West that now have very little shot at 'old' Toronto type housing that I think may start considering the Scarborough 'South of 401, West of Morningside, North of Kingstson' stretch mainly due its vicinity and general pricing/value. It is more of a personal biased, a bit out-there prediction... but the need and desire for housing when one has a family may cause a large shift that we don't expect today. The boundaries keep getting pushed out. I remember when Kennedy Stn felt like the ends of the city. Now, it's like the downtown of Scarborough.

For example, I too (am mid/late 30s, so just ahead of the first big millennial wave) was looking at semis Danforth East ~3-5 years ago since it was on the subway, had that storefront neighbourhood, most value. This was before the big explosion. I was looking as far as Woodbine, and predicting that young couples would up to Main St. which happened relatively quickly, before stopping there awhile due to the unattractive stretch and high rises between Main and VP. But as each swell of Hipsters and Millennials are settling down with kids, I think that swell may spill over into places and area unthinkable now. Of course the whole inwards, Family in a Condo movement is picking up, but I think there won't be enough comfortable, properly priced units for any couple having 2 kids in about 7-10 yrs. Regarding if those Millennials today change the landscape around them, or would they settle into the 'Scarborough' lifestyle. My gut feel is it would take much longer for any store fronts or hubs to change 'for the better'.

That's an amusing image.

Here's a real question it prompts though.....

Does Scarborough have an area w/enough critical mass of higher-end wealth around which it could sustain the kind of shopping district a Whole Foods might locate in?

My inkling is that the answer is no. As discussed elsewhere, there is substantial wealth in the much, though not all of the slim band of real estate between Kingston Rd. and the Lake, up till almost Lawrence.

But its a thin, long, stretch.

I think the Kingston Rd. stretch from Vic. Park to Birchmount might offer the greatest opportunity......

Or maybe the section up by Midland.

But in both cases, we're still some years away.

Great observation and comment in your earlier post. I do agree with your inkling here as mentioned in my post above. But I am of one who is slightly more in the belief that it will get to a point where the now the last bastion of desired affordability of Durham will be limited, traffic will get so bad (I've seen it already on the 401 West in Scarbs just in 3 years), the realization that 2 kids in the condo will be really difficult, and the idea of being close to the LRT/Kennedy Stn won't be as bad. Of course, the young 'Millennials/Hipsters' that may move there, would still be living with more value-minded people, plus the high rises. So it won't be as fast and abrupt as Danforth East. I've already seen some young couples settling for the Classic Scarborough area.. far and few between, but its there. And though it (Whole Foods type thing) might happen, anything like that happening IMO would be at least 20 years away.
 
The whole stretch along Eglinton in Scarborough is ripe for gentrification.

All of the Golden Mile could be developed in an way that fosters neighbourhood development. The intensification of Sheppard can continue all the way to McCowan probably.

Beyond that, I don't really think Scarborough has as much 'potential' as the other 5 boroughs, I think they will largely miss out on the coming boom in Toronto. It's road network and transit access really stands out as the reason why. Scarborough is like Mississauga except within the 416. Heck, STC and Square One are even equal distances away from downtown Toronto. (At least 'Sauga has a central artery around Hurontario to intensify around, which Scarborough doesn't even have)
 
Beyond that, I don't really think Scarborough has as much 'potential' as the other 5 boroughs, I think they will largely miss out on the coming boom in Toronto.

The coming boom? Are you talking about real estate, transit?

I believe Scarborough has enormous potential. It should soon be getting the Eglinton East LRT, moving more than 7000 persons at peak hour/direction, which should lead to great intensification along the Eglinton East Corridor. With Line 2, Eglinton Line and RER converging at Kennedy Station, I believe that particular area of Eglinton East has fantastic potential to be Scarborough's major urban corridor, even more than North York's Yonge Street. I imagine that area would be great for high rise residential and mixed use developments, with it being only a 20 minute trip to Downtown Toronto via RER or Line 2. I also believe this area has far more potential than Scarborough Centre ever will, and I wish City Staff would pay more attention to incubating the Kennedy Station area, rather than still attempting to get STC to work after 40 years of failure.

Etobicoke will be getting the Crosstown West, but according to City staff, there isn't much opportunity for intensification on that corridor. I don't see that infrastructure providing benefit to Etobicoke, beyond the benefits of faster transit.
 

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