CDL.TO
Moderator
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but don't all of the 905 transit systems now use time-based transfers?
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Despite Toronto, Montreal gridlock, commuters reluctant to use transit
- Thread starter M II A II R II K
- Start date
M II A II R II K
Senior Member
The subway system is great for shorter range rapid transit but for those in the far reaches of Scarborough they not only have to deal with that transfer but sit through endless stops on the BD line to get downtown and transfer again.
In addition to a DRL we should have a Toronto Overground in some of the rail corridors for express intercity services and would allow travelers from the east to bypass using the subway altogether.
In addition to a DRL we should have a Toronto Overground in some of the rail corridors for express intercity services and would allow travelers from the east to bypass using the subway altogether.
mk-j
New Member
I can't blame anyone for not wanting to suffer through the subway experience in Toronto anymore. As a long time subway rider, the delays, overcrowding, and insufficient air conditioning have really started to wear on me so now I take one of the downtown express buses to work and pay a premium for it. The ride is faster, smoother, and much more comfortable than the subway. It's a more direct route for me too. I realize there's an extra cost to express buses, which discourages their use, but it's still much cheaper than driving and just as fast.
Using public money to build more subway lines (including perhaps express lines underneath existing subway lines) would help make public transit more attractive and take some commuters out of their cars, thus reducing car commuting times too. If that's not in the cards, then perhaps more premium downtown express bus routes would help alleviate some subway congestion as a temporarily solution. The Yonge line definitely feels much slower now than it did 10 years ago.
Unfortunately too many voters are unable to see past the "I don't use public transit so I won't pay for it" mentality. I suspect we will have to wait for a much younger generation of politicians to come to power at all levels of government before there's a substantial change for Toronto.
Using public money to build more subway lines (including perhaps express lines underneath existing subway lines) would help make public transit more attractive and take some commuters out of their cars, thus reducing car commuting times too. If that's not in the cards, then perhaps more premium downtown express bus routes would help alleviate some subway congestion as a temporarily solution. The Yonge line definitely feels much slower now than it did 10 years ago.
Unfortunately too many voters are unable to see past the "I don't use public transit so I won't pay for it" mentality. I suspect we will have to wait for a much younger generation of politicians to come to power at all levels of government before there's a substantial change for Toronto.
If you're going to build express lines, I would spend the money upgrading GO lines to be electrified and handle subway-like frequency. Much better bang for the buck than digging under existing subway lines or even tunnelling in general.
I think it's a chicken and egg thing. Many people don't use transit because the service level is so poor. As a result, not very many people see it as needed. If the service becomes better, more people will use it, and then more people will see how valuable it is.
nfitz
Superstar
They've supported the Conservatives for what ... 3 elections in a row?
The Star attacks both the Conservatives and the NDP, and they tend to support the Liberals. Surely that is centrist compared to the Globe.
I would consider the 'fringe' papers like NOW to be on the left, the Star to be centre-left, the Globe to be centre-right, and the Sun and the National Post to be right wing.
For TV, most stations are pretty centrist, with the exception of Sun TV (which no one even watches). Some people consider the CBC to be left-wing, but I consider them pretty centrist. Saying "Tony Clement unethically poured federal money into his own riding" does not make you left wing, it makes you truthful.
For TV, most stations are pretty centrist, with the exception of Sun TV (which no one even watches). Some people consider the CBC to be left-wing, but I consider them pretty centrist. Saying "Tony Clement unethically poured federal money into his own riding" does not make you left wing, it makes you truthful.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
It would be better if one could transfer from the TTC to the GO train and then transfer back to the TTC to complete the journey at either the same GO fare or a reduced combined fare.
APTA-2048
Senior Member
You are allowed to that. TTC Times Two with GO Transit.
Every system in the GTA except the TTC and DRT.
Still Waters
New Member
I think the flavour of the article is a bit misleading. They talk about the fact that transit's share of the commuter market has not increased, which gives the impression that transit is suffering from a lack of success. However, the TTC has set record ridership levels for the last 3 years and is carrying more riders than it ever has in its history. The volumes are higher, and ridership has seen significant growth, but service levels have not been increasing to match. Most of the gain has actually occurred during the off-peak periods, so the market share numbers for the home-to-work commute don't necessarily tell the whole story. In fact, if transit's market share of peak period commuter travel were to increase, the TTC simply couldn't carry the resulting volume of riders.
The problem is that the TTC is the perfect example of what happens when you don't properly invest in your infrastructure. Politicians have been happy to let the ridership numbers grow, to see the city continue to grow, developments continue to be approved, cranes dotting the skyline, but they haven't wanted to spend money to properly maintain the existing system, let alone expand capacity. They are happy enough to give out property tax freezes and income tax rebates and credits rather than re-invest in the transit system, and we city residents happily accept this "found" money as our due. But then we look around and suddenly realise that the buses and subways are over-crowded, the service is unreliable and slow, the vehicles are old and decrepit, the fares are high, and the system is dirty and, by gosh, it must be the fault of those lazy, overpaid piggies they call transit employees. Now, not to say that there is no blame to lay there (we all have our horror stories to tell), but the system isn't in trouble because of what the employees are paid. The system is in trouble because it's been starved and virtually ignored for 20 years. It wasn't too long ago that bus drivers were being paid to do nothing because, with a fleet that was twice as old anything on the continent, there too often wasn't a working bus for them to drive their shift. You want a fancy new, electronic fare collection system? Well, perhaps the subway tunnel liners can be left to leak and deterioriate for a few more years, or the subway signals can be coaxed to last for another 8-10 years beyond their recommended end-life so that everyone can happily oohh and aahh over their new fare cards. At least Miller made a start on catching up a bit by replacing the bus, streetcar and subway fleets, and increasing some off-peak service. And even when there is money to expand, it's wasted on subway extensions to low-density fields while people are falling out of the windows in over-crowded buses, streetcars and subways. The Eglinton LRT is the only bright spot on the horizon, but even that has been shortened from it's original plan to be a true cross-town line (assuming it actually gets built this time around).
And now, here we are again with cut, cut, cut and everyone is screaming that it's all the union's fault or it's management or both. What's so frustrating is that no one in charge has been willing or able to sit the taxpayers of this city down and tell them the truth. If they want a first-class transit system, then they'd better brace themselves and pay up because that's what it's going to take to make up for 20 years of neglect. You aren't going to fix it by firing half the employees and cutting the pay of the rest. If the taxpayers would rather stick their heads in the sand and just continue to blame the transit employees, then we'd be better off just selling the thing to the highest bidder and be done with it. I don't know whether I'm more frustrated or depressed. Sorry for the rant.
The problem is that the TTC is the perfect example of what happens when you don't properly invest in your infrastructure. Politicians have been happy to let the ridership numbers grow, to see the city continue to grow, developments continue to be approved, cranes dotting the skyline, but they haven't wanted to spend money to properly maintain the existing system, let alone expand capacity. They are happy enough to give out property tax freezes and income tax rebates and credits rather than re-invest in the transit system, and we city residents happily accept this "found" money as our due. But then we look around and suddenly realise that the buses and subways are over-crowded, the service is unreliable and slow, the vehicles are old and decrepit, the fares are high, and the system is dirty and, by gosh, it must be the fault of those lazy, overpaid piggies they call transit employees. Now, not to say that there is no blame to lay there (we all have our horror stories to tell), but the system isn't in trouble because of what the employees are paid. The system is in trouble because it's been starved and virtually ignored for 20 years. It wasn't too long ago that bus drivers were being paid to do nothing because, with a fleet that was twice as old anything on the continent, there too often wasn't a working bus for them to drive their shift. You want a fancy new, electronic fare collection system? Well, perhaps the subway tunnel liners can be left to leak and deterioriate for a few more years, or the subway signals can be coaxed to last for another 8-10 years beyond their recommended end-life so that everyone can happily oohh and aahh over their new fare cards. At least Miller made a start on catching up a bit by replacing the bus, streetcar and subway fleets, and increasing some off-peak service. And even when there is money to expand, it's wasted on subway extensions to low-density fields while people are falling out of the windows in over-crowded buses, streetcars and subways. The Eglinton LRT is the only bright spot on the horizon, but even that has been shortened from it's original plan to be a true cross-town line (assuming it actually gets built this time around).
And now, here we are again with cut, cut, cut and everyone is screaming that it's all the union's fault or it's management or both. What's so frustrating is that no one in charge has been willing or able to sit the taxpayers of this city down and tell them the truth. If they want a first-class transit system, then they'd better brace themselves and pay up because that's what it's going to take to make up for 20 years of neglect. You aren't going to fix it by firing half the employees and cutting the pay of the rest. If the taxpayers would rather stick their heads in the sand and just continue to blame the transit employees, then we'd be better off just selling the thing to the highest bidder and be done with it. I don't know whether I'm more frustrated or depressed. Sorry for the rant.
Electrify
Senior Member
For the record, we kind of need both new infrastructure and a unified payment system. Not everyone is aware of all the different transfers and rules within their own system, let alone between them. And unfortunately, this includes the drivers and fare collectors themselves. If they can barely keep it straight, how do you think the average rider will manage?
Filip
Senior Member
They supported the best candidate of the bunch... I think that shows centrism.
The Star went NDP-crazy in the last election, in fact the only major newspaper to do so, I thought that showed their true colours.
andrewpmk
Senior Member
But I don't think that anyone enjoys driving in heavy traffic either. No one enjoys driving on the 401, DVP or Gardiner in rush hour. However, for many people the alternatives are horrible (overcrowded Sheppard bus, overcrowded Finch bus, overcrowded Don Mills bus, infrequent GO train service...) so people feel they have no choice. If alternatives were built (Eglinton subway, Sheppard subway, Downtown relief line, more frequent GO train service...) then I suspect they would be very popular. Trouble is, it might be difficult to convince non transit users that we shouldn't simply widen roads instead.
nfitz
Superstar
Precisely ... the Star typically supports the Liberals, but this time they supported Layton - the best candidate of the bunch, thus showing centrism.
Glad you agree with me for once.
M II A II R II K
Senior Member
85% of drivers have never used transit
Read More: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/story/2011/08/24/traffic-commute-statistics.html
The vast majority of Canadians who drive every day have never attempted any other way of getting to work, according to a new survey published Wednesday on the typical commute last year. The survey by Statistics Canada found that 82 per cent of Canadian workers drive to work, 12 per cent take some sort of public transit, while six per cent walk or bike to work.
Of the 10.6 million workers who commuted by car, 15 per cent, or 1.6 million, had tried using public transit to get to work. But nine million had never tried any other way of getting to work. A vast majority of drivers said their main reason for not trying anything else was because it would be inconvenient.
As it turns out, they may be on to something: the survey also showed that transit users have longer than average commutes:
• The average Canadian commute to work was 26 minutes in 2010, the data showed.
• Those who walk or bike to work had the shortest commute, on average, at 14 minutes.
• Although there's wide disparity, drivers could expect a 24-minute commute, on average.
• But those who rely on public transit took an average of 44 minutes to get to work every day — almost triple the amount of time it takes walkers and cyclists, and nearly double what drivers do.
Transit users who live outside of large urban centres fared even worse. It takes them an average of 51 minutes to get to work every day, compared to 36 for their big city counterparts. Longer commutes had a correlation with stress levels and overall happiness, the survey found. But there are economic consequences too.
"The longer you spend driving in traffic (over an hour a day in Toronto) clearly means more personal household spending on gasoline, leaving less discretionary cash," ATB Financial economist Todd Hirsch said in reaction to the report. "
.....
Read More: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/story/2011/08/24/traffic-commute-statistics.html
The vast majority of Canadians who drive every day have never attempted any other way of getting to work, according to a new survey published Wednesday on the typical commute last year. The survey by Statistics Canada found that 82 per cent of Canadian workers drive to work, 12 per cent take some sort of public transit, while six per cent walk or bike to work.
Of the 10.6 million workers who commuted by car, 15 per cent, or 1.6 million, had tried using public transit to get to work. But nine million had never tried any other way of getting to work. A vast majority of drivers said their main reason for not trying anything else was because it would be inconvenient.
As it turns out, they may be on to something: the survey also showed that transit users have longer than average commutes:
• The average Canadian commute to work was 26 minutes in 2010, the data showed.
• Those who walk or bike to work had the shortest commute, on average, at 14 minutes.
• Although there's wide disparity, drivers could expect a 24-minute commute, on average.
• But those who rely on public transit took an average of 44 minutes to get to work every day — almost triple the amount of time it takes walkers and cyclists, and nearly double what drivers do.
Transit users who live outside of large urban centres fared even worse. It takes them an average of 51 minutes to get to work every day, compared to 36 for their big city counterparts. Longer commutes had a correlation with stress levels and overall happiness, the survey found. But there are economic consequences too.
"The longer you spend driving in traffic (over an hour a day in Toronto) clearly means more personal household spending on gasoline, leaving less discretionary cash," ATB Financial economist Todd Hirsch said in reaction to the report. "
.....
This is pretty misleading. A lot of Canadian cities only have a couple bus routes that run infrequently. If you look at the number for just cities/regions over 500,000, you'd find a much different number.