Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[OneCity]

It's not the funding - it's the projects. I am convinced that suburanites wanted improved rapid transit for longer distances. (For local traffic, buses worked fine). What they got was an improved local Transit City. What was the realistic cost of Transit City - maybe $20B. And that was all in the suburbs. And not a single transit line between front street and St. Clair, and Don river and Keele - maybe an area of 32 km2. It did add transit to the suburbs, but it did not improve the system 1 bit.
Let's say Spadina subway extension went ahead no matter what.
Instead of all those LRT lines - what people in the suburbs would have wanted was.
DRL East to Seneca.
Eglinton connected to SRT to Malvern.
Some type of TTC fare service on the UPE.

Odd how residents would want a plan that actually improves transit for the people who live here. East of Central Scarborough we have very efficient local and express bus routes. Would the SMLRT have been an improvement for TTC commuters? No. Were we really taking away vehicle lanes to do so? Yes. Were we really introducing a new transfer on Sheppard? Yes

The RT is already head scratcher of transit planning for its out of place stop locations, poor accessibly, and poor connectivity of the Centre. That's in addition to the stand-alone, poorly maintained technology. Transit City sure looked cool and fancy, which I feel would have helped warn out areas a bit. But that's about all it was good for.

The SSE with stops back in, Smarttrack, Scarb-Durham BRT and improved SMLRT (EELRT) as a package is a far better "Transit City" plan as its adds a new realm of Central connectivity and City-wide access residents have been asking for decades, a feeder most UTSC commuters from the west will take with the BRT as it will be more efficient then the EELRT and it also adds some colour to the warn areas if they build the nice to have but not commute improving EELRT.

Sure Scarborough Centers connection could have been done cheaper, but Transit City fanatics refused to budge off such a poorly designed LRT plan that escaped real scrutiny. Worse the media sold it as "evidence-based" and "expert plan" fueling the misunderstanding as to why the majority of voters here have overwhelmingly supported the death of such an unfortunate plan

 

[Rainforest]

Would those be suburbanites?

I recall the transit specific tax proposals having fairly high approval ratings in the core and not as high in the suburbs (particularly 905 portions) early in Wynne's term. Are there newer polls? The recently eliminated Carbon tax seemed to have similarly spread support; relatively high support in the core and less so in the suburbs (I'm basing this assertion on election results).

At this time we have nearly 3x in spending plans as we have in money allotted to transit to spend; and 1/3rd of that spending is maintenance.

I am not blaming any segment of the population, whether they live in the core or in the suburbs.

I only have an issue with a few forum members, who come to a transit thread solely to state their opposition to transit revenue tools.

 

[Rainforest]

I don't know how it would work municipally but the idea of taxes being 'dedicated' is a bit of a shell game at the federal or provincial level. All government income, with the exception I believe of grants from other governments, goes into a single consolidated revenue account ('the big pot'). Politicians might say that certain revenue opportunities will go direct to service 'x', and there might be a corresponding line account showing a similar amount, but there is nothing that says it has to, or has to forever.

You are right that most of the time the governments form a general revenue pool, and then decide what to fund and when to do so. However, it doesn't have to always be the case. Dedicated transit taxes do exist in some jurisdictions.

Transit projects are special in some ways. On one hand, they promise to make the lives of residents easier, and once built, they work for decades or even for centuries. On the other hand, they aren't "survival-grade" essential, and take several years to build, thus every current government is tempted to kick that can down the road.

Therefore, a tax dedicated to a specific transit project might be more acceptable for the public ("I know what I am paying for") than an increase in the general tax rate.

 

[ssiguy2]

Dedicated taxes can work if they are set up properly with the best example being Vancouver's Translink. The special gas taxes/fees etc paid for transportation in GV are collected by and go directly to Translink which can only spend money on transportation projects whether that be road, transit, sidewalks, or bike trails. The money does not go to the individual cities, districts, or Victoria but straight to Translink and Toronto could do the same by setting up a revenue stream that goes directly towards Metrolinx. Toronto has a good example of how it can effectively work but is lacking the political will to do so.

 

[drum118]

Thanks to the Ford's in 2010, the SRT remains in place of the Plan LRT conversion that was supposed to up and running either late last year or this year. It would not only cover the existing line, but the 1980 plan extension to Melvern Town Centre. Then got to thank Mayor Tory for pushing a subway that will not be ready until 2030, if then, at an extra $2 Billion and counting. The SRT will not last until the subway opens.

Breakdown of Scarborough RT a grim reminder of what may be in store for transit riders

 

[BurlOak]

Thanks to the Ford's in 2010, the SRT remains in place of the Plan LRT conversion that was supposed to up and running either late last year or this year. It would not only cover the existing line, but the 1980 plan extension to Melvern Town Centre. Then got to thank Mayor Tory for pushing a subway that will not be ready until 2030, if then, at an extra $2 Billion and counting. The SRT will not last until the subway opens.

Breakdown of Scarborough RT a grim reminder of what may be in store for transit riders

4 months after taking office, Ford's plan for the SRT was the same as the previous one. The difference being it would be connected to Eglinton for revenue service and not just for maintenance. It was city council and the provincial liberals that killed this and brought in the subway plan, which he same council and liberals dragged their feet on implementing.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Thanks to the Ford's in 2010, the SRT remains in place of the Plan LRT conversion that was supposed to up and running either late last year or this year. It would not only cover the existing line, but the 1980 plan extension to Melvern Town Centre. Then got to thank Mayor Tory for pushing a subway that will not be ready until 2030, if then, at an extra $2 Billion and counting. The SRT will not last until the subway opens.

Breakdown of Scarborough RT a grim reminder of what may be in store for transit riders

Each new "idea" or "decision" just adds to the timeline. "Change" something, the timeline has to be rethought.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Thanks to the Ford's in 2010, the SRT remains in place of the Plan LRT conversion that was supposed to up and running either late last year or this year. It would not only cover the existing line, but the 1980 plan extension to Melvern Town Centre. Then got to thank Mayor Tory for pushing a subway that will not be ready until 2030, if then, at an extra $2 Billion and counting. The SRT will not last until the subway opens.

Breakdown of Scarborough RT a grim reminder of what may be in store for transit riders

Just in case anyone was still under the illusion that this government has plans of building the Scarborough Subway according to the current schedule:

Story contains this important line from the transportation minister's spokesperson: "It would be premature at this point to speculate on a timetable for building the Scarborough subway.”

"Premature" to speculate on a timetable, when this thing was supposed to begin construction this year.

 

[nfitz]

"Premature" to speculate on a timetable, when this thing was supposed to begin construction this year.

Which is exactly what many warned about, in terms of electing these folks, and uploading the subway infrastructure. That it's going to delay delivery of the Line 2 extension.

The same way that LIne 5 and Line 6 (not to mention Sheppard East) delivery was delayed by the province uploading it.

 

[Rainforest]

Thanks to the Ford's in 2010, the SRT remains in place of the Plan LRT conversion that was supposed to up and running either late last year or this year. It would not only cover the existing line, but the 1980 plan extension to Melvern Town Centre. Then got to thank Mayor Tory for pushing a subway that will not be ready until 2030, if then, at an extra $2 Billion and counting. The SRT will not last until the subway opens.

And thanks to the City Council members elected since 2014 that the subway construction hasn't started yet.

 

[Rainforest]

4 months after taking office, Ford's plan for the SRT was the same as the previous one. The difference being it would be connected to Eglinton for revenue service and not just for maintenance. It was city council and the provincial liberals that killed this and brought in the subway plan, which he same council and liberals dragged their feet on implementing.

Indeed, while Rob Ford tried to change every other line on the table, he didn't want to revise SLRT.

It was a later idea of Stintz and De Baeremaeker to replace SLRT with the subway. Rob Ford accepted it but only reluctantly, and hesitated whether to vote for the needed property surtax.

 

[BurlOak]

And thanks to the City Council members elected since 2014 that the subway construction hasn't started yet.

City council in 2014 was the exact same as 2011 - maybe 1 incumbent was defeated.
These were the group that proudly announced in early 2012 that they were taking the transit file away from Ford and abandoning the Eglinton-Scarborough Crosstown.

Indeed, while Rob Ford tried to change every other line on the table, he didn't want to revise SLRT.

It was a later idea of Stintz and De Baeremaeker to replace SLRT with the subway. Rob Ford accepted it but only reluctantly, and hesitated whether to vote for the needed property surtax.

The thing to think about. If every transit line planned by McGuinty's Liberals and David Miller actually was funded and built, there would be ZERO additional transit lines between Front Street and St. Clair, from Don Valley to Keele. That's 50 km2 around the core of the city with no benefits.
Ford got people talking subway again.

 

[pstogios]

Just in case anyone was still under the illusion that this government has plans of building the Scarborough Subway according to the current schedule:

Story contains this important line from the transportation minister's spokesperson: "It would be premature at this point to speculate on a timetable for building the Scarborough subway.”

"Premature" to speculate on a timetable, when this thing was supposed to begin construction this year.

If you think about it, this is actually a wonderful outcome.

With these delays, polticians can say they are for the over-priced, unnecessary SSE and instead blame other politicians or bureaucrats for why it isn’t under construction yet. They don’t actually need to come out against it.

The taxpaying public can continue to not waste money on a white elephant.

I say delay delay delay this thing until people get so fed up that other plans for Scarborough transit, based largely on cost-effective and density/ridership-appropriate LRT lines, look amazing in comparison.

 

[syn]

4 months after taking office, Ford's plan for the SRT was the same as the previous one. The difference being it would be connected to Eglinton for revenue service and not just for maintenance. It was city council and the provincial liberals that killed this and brought in the subway plan, which he same council and liberals dragged their feet on implementing.

Here is the transit plan Rob Ford campaigned on in 2010.

The red lines are subway extensions that were going to be complete by 2015.

We were supposed to have two Sheppard Extensions and a Bloor-Danforth extension to replace the RT done 4 years ago.

Let's stop pretending Rob Ford wasn't the main factor in the current predicament we now find ourselves in.

If it wasn't for him, Scarborough riders might already be enjoying terrific new transit infrastructure.

 

[BurlOak]

Here is the transit plan Rob Ford campaigned on in 2010.

The red lines are subway extensions that were going to be complete by 2015.

We were supposed to have two Sheppard Extensions and a Bloor-Danforth extension to replace the RT done 4 years ago.

Let's stop pretending Rob Ford wasn't the main factor in the current predicament we now find ourselves in.

If it wasn't for him, Scarborough riders might already be enjoying terrific new transit infrastructure.

That map shows how nicely Ford was able to compromise.
Although he wanted B-D to go to STC, he accepted Eglinton being prioritized and being LRT as well, as long as it was grade-separated. Ford would have agreed to any grade-separated transit line, but for the Liberals in Queen's Park, and the City Councillors who proudly took the transit file away from Ford - it was not about building good transit, it was about defeating Ford. Even the Relief line - which many say is a priority - took a back seat for a half a decade just to advance the anti-Ford cause.

The ironic part is that with the drug abuse, Rob Ford would have been gone anyways, and we could have had the DRL, plus no Ford.
The farther ironic part is that even if the drug abuse wouldn't have stopped Rob Ford, his medical issues did.
So we spend Billions of dollars and countless lost years of transit planning just to stop Rob Ford, when he wouldn't have been there in any case.