D
Darkstar416
Guest
Political realities may be more apt.
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GregWTravels
Guest
I just stumbled across this. I thought some of us here dreamt big, but apparently David Ryan, the Mayor of Pickering has us all beat. Forget Malvern, he wants to run the SRT replacement to run to Pickering, Oshawa and Markham!
www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs...0599119419
Could link three regions
If we plan accordingly, the enhanced line could evolve into a major transportation network
Recently, the Star has devoted much print space to the Greater Toronto Transit Authority (GTTA). I wish to add some thoughts to the discussion.
The GTTA has the enormous and daunting challenge of addressing and mandating the Greater Toronto Area's transportation needs. However, if it is not given the authority and resources to plan and implement a strong and sustainable GTA transportation infrastructure, I fear it will meet the same demise as the ill-fated Greater Toronto Services Board.
Interestingly, your newspaper has also detailed the undetermined future of the Scarborough RT line. I think we have a golden opportunity here, which may also be our best and last chance to get it right. Would it not make sense for the GTTA to devise a strategy that would see the enhancement of the Scarborough RT line and its extension into Pickering and the Region of Durham, as well as Markham and the Region of York?
For example, the Scarborough RT line should be extended to the University of Toronto at Scarborough and then proceed eastward to the future community of Seaton in Pickering to service almost 80,000 new residents. It could then progress eastward along Highway 407 into Whitby, Oshawa and Clarington to service hundreds of thousands of additional new residents, as well as the University of Ontario Institute of Technology in Oshawa — Ontario's fastest growing university.
From the Seaton terminus, the line could travel westward to Markham and service Markham's new burgeoning communities of Cornell, Greensborough and Boxgrove.
If we plan accordingly, the enhanced Scarborough RT line could eventually evolve into a major transportation network, which would link millions of people, several key business corridors and two university campuses within three separate municipal regions — Toronto, Durham and York.
In Durham alone, the population is expected to reach 1 million in 25 years. That's an overwhelming amount of people, cars and congestion. Notwithstanding transportation, the associated environmental, socio-economic and quality of life implications are staggering.
Right now, we have a window of opportunity to effectively deal with these looming challenges. I implore the senior levels of government to not let this window close.
If we are to be successful, we need to put aside the old disengaged way of thinking in silos and implement a solution that addresses the health and sustainability of the entire GTA and not just what we want for our own individual communities.
David Ryan, Mayor, City of Pickering
www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs...0599119419
Could link three regions
If we plan accordingly, the enhanced line could evolve into a major transportation network
Recently, the Star has devoted much print space to the Greater Toronto Transit Authority (GTTA). I wish to add some thoughts to the discussion.
The GTTA has the enormous and daunting challenge of addressing and mandating the Greater Toronto Area's transportation needs. However, if it is not given the authority and resources to plan and implement a strong and sustainable GTA transportation infrastructure, I fear it will meet the same demise as the ill-fated Greater Toronto Services Board.
Interestingly, your newspaper has also detailed the undetermined future of the Scarborough RT line. I think we have a golden opportunity here, which may also be our best and last chance to get it right. Would it not make sense for the GTTA to devise a strategy that would see the enhancement of the Scarborough RT line and its extension into Pickering and the Region of Durham, as well as Markham and the Region of York?
For example, the Scarborough RT line should be extended to the University of Toronto at Scarborough and then proceed eastward to the future community of Seaton in Pickering to service almost 80,000 new residents. It could then progress eastward along Highway 407 into Whitby, Oshawa and Clarington to service hundreds of thousands of additional new residents, as well as the University of Ontario Institute of Technology in Oshawa — Ontario's fastest growing university.
From the Seaton terminus, the line could travel westward to Markham and service Markham's new burgeoning communities of Cornell, Greensborough and Boxgrove.
If we plan accordingly, the enhanced Scarborough RT line could eventually evolve into a major transportation network, which would link millions of people, several key business corridors and two university campuses within three separate municipal regions — Toronto, Durham and York.
In Durham alone, the population is expected to reach 1 million in 25 years. That's an overwhelming amount of people, cars and congestion. Notwithstanding transportation, the associated environmental, socio-economic and quality of life implications are staggering.
Right now, we have a window of opportunity to effectively deal with these looming challenges. I implore the senior levels of government to not let this window close.
If we are to be successful, we need to put aside the old disengaged way of thinking in silos and implement a solution that addresses the health and sustainability of the entire GTA and not just what we want for our own individual communities.
David Ryan, Mayor, City of Pickering
S
samsonyuen
Guest
What? That's crazy! Wasn't the Cornell development the subdivision that vetoed a large vivapink (or something) station? How about instead of subway, have a commuter rail running with less stops through Pickering and Markham? Oh wait! We do! It's the GO!
J
JoeyCuppa
Guest
Why hasn't the idea of building a subway or LRT that replaces the SRT AND connects the Sheppard subway to STC been mentioned anywhere?
Everyone talks about the Sheppard Line going nowhere, and how it should be extended to STC...
Build the subway from Kennedy to STC to Sheppard & Don Mills - STC will grow into one of the much bally-hooed "nodes" in the City's Official Plan - people will want to live and work there as it'll be accessible by fast transit from North York AND downtown.
Everyone talks about the Sheppard Line going nowhere, and how it should be extended to STC...
Build the subway from Kennedy to STC to Sheppard & Don Mills - STC will grow into one of the much bally-hooed "nodes" in the City's Official Plan - people will want to live and work there as it'll be accessible by fast transit from North York AND downtown.
B
Brighter Hell
Guest
stunning, isn't it? the sad thing is that some of the people on other forums have been convinced of this idea.Forget Malvern, he wants to run the SRT replacement to run to Pickering, Oshawa and Markham!
S
samsonyuen
Guest
From: www.insidetoronto.ca/to/s...carborough
____________________________
Scarborough MPPs get the subway message
More than 2,000 ballots calling for subway presented
MIKE ADLER
May. 26, 2006
They didn't promise us a subway.
But Scarborough MPPs said public transit is important here and when you talk about it, they listen.
On Friday, more than 2,300 people - residents who took time to write and call for a subway as part of The Scarborough Mirror campaign - made it clear to Scarborough's five provincial representatives a subway is what they want.
On the walkway outside the Scarborough Centre Rapid Transit station, representatives from Centennial College and The Scarborough Mirror handed the Liberal MPPs proof of local opinion. Centennial College, University of Toronto Scarborough Campus and the Scarborough Town Centre were founding supporters of the campaign that launched late last year.
As the line's soon-to-be-obsolete cars rumbled overhead, Scarborough Centre MPP Brad Duguid said Scarborough's future, both economic and social, is at stake over transit.
The last several months have seen choices presented on what can be done to update or replace the six-stop RT before it's too late. Riders complained about the system and businesses said the area around the Scarborough Civic Centre needs a subway to prosper.
Duguid pledged that all Scarborough MPPs will work in residents' best interests at Queen's Park when the City of Toronto decides its transit-expansion priorities this fall. But what gets built is up to the city, he said.
"We'll be there to support every decision they make," Duguid added. "Local projects have to come from local levels of government and our job is to assist them with funding."
He predicted the Spadina Subway extension to York University would be built, but denied this would be at the expense of Scarborough's own subway bid.
The province set aside $1 million for an environmental assessment of work to modify or replace the Scarborough RT, noted Scarborough East MPP Mary Anne Chambers.
"It signifies the province's willingness to listen to the people of Scarborough and the concerns that they've raised. That is Step One," she said. "I don't think it would be good for us to be dealing with the same (RT) system 20 years from now. But clearly the first step has been taken."
The subway campaign has been wonderful for raising Scarborough's needs, challenges and accomplishments: it's keeping Scarborough on the map, Chambers said.
It's important for the TTC to make decisions after listening to students and businesses in the area, she added.
"They need to be heard."
Vicki Bismilla, Centennial's vice-president, academic, said she was also thinking about the needs of Scarborough's young people. "Our students are not wealthy. They can't all be driving to campus," she said. "If the transit routes can be improved many more students would be able to realize their potential."
Scarborough is a jewel, a global village, said Bismilla, who has lived here during all her 36 years in Canada.
"The people are coming out here but the politicians are not keeping up," she said. "We don't want to be ignored. We want a subway. We deserve the same kind of access that downtown Toronto does, that Bay Street does."
Scarborough-Rouge River MPP Bas Balkissoon, a municipal councillor until last year, said whatever transit system is built has to be attractive to drivers. "Until you can make it more attractive and convenient, people are not going to be getting out of their cars."
We should look at incremental expansion of all subway lines rather than new lines, Balkissoon said, suggesting when you talk about one station per year you make subway expansion more attractive for higher levels of government.
____________________________
Scarborough MPPs get the subway message
More than 2,000 ballots calling for subway presented
MIKE ADLER
May. 26, 2006
They didn't promise us a subway.
But Scarborough MPPs said public transit is important here and when you talk about it, they listen.
On Friday, more than 2,300 people - residents who took time to write and call for a subway as part of The Scarborough Mirror campaign - made it clear to Scarborough's five provincial representatives a subway is what they want.
On the walkway outside the Scarborough Centre Rapid Transit station, representatives from Centennial College and The Scarborough Mirror handed the Liberal MPPs proof of local opinion. Centennial College, University of Toronto Scarborough Campus and the Scarborough Town Centre were founding supporters of the campaign that launched late last year.
As the line's soon-to-be-obsolete cars rumbled overhead, Scarborough Centre MPP Brad Duguid said Scarborough's future, both economic and social, is at stake over transit.
The last several months have seen choices presented on what can be done to update or replace the six-stop RT before it's too late. Riders complained about the system and businesses said the area around the Scarborough Civic Centre needs a subway to prosper.
Duguid pledged that all Scarborough MPPs will work in residents' best interests at Queen's Park when the City of Toronto decides its transit-expansion priorities this fall. But what gets built is up to the city, he said.
"We'll be there to support every decision they make," Duguid added. "Local projects have to come from local levels of government and our job is to assist them with funding."
He predicted the Spadina Subway extension to York University would be built, but denied this would be at the expense of Scarborough's own subway bid.
The province set aside $1 million for an environmental assessment of work to modify or replace the Scarborough RT, noted Scarborough East MPP Mary Anne Chambers.
"It signifies the province's willingness to listen to the people of Scarborough and the concerns that they've raised. That is Step One," she said. "I don't think it would be good for us to be dealing with the same (RT) system 20 years from now. But clearly the first step has been taken."
The subway campaign has been wonderful for raising Scarborough's needs, challenges and accomplishments: it's keeping Scarborough on the map, Chambers said.
It's important for the TTC to make decisions after listening to students and businesses in the area, she added.
"They need to be heard."
Vicki Bismilla, Centennial's vice-president, academic, said she was also thinking about the needs of Scarborough's young people. "Our students are not wealthy. They can't all be driving to campus," she said. "If the transit routes can be improved many more students would be able to realize their potential."
Scarborough is a jewel, a global village, said Bismilla, who has lived here during all her 36 years in Canada.
"The people are coming out here but the politicians are not keeping up," she said. "We don't want to be ignored. We want a subway. We deserve the same kind of access that downtown Toronto does, that Bay Street does."
Scarborough-Rouge River MPP Bas Balkissoon, a municipal councillor until last year, said whatever transit system is built has to be attractive to drivers. "Until you can make it more attractive and convenient, people are not going to be getting out of their cars."
We should look at incremental expansion of all subway lines rather than new lines, Balkissoon said, suggesting when you talk about one station per year you make subway expansion more attractive for higher levels of government.
R
roch5220
Guest
I think the Spadina line is something ....
Well said green22. I agree entire.
S
samsonyuen
Guest
From: www.insidetoronto.ca/to/s...carborough
________________________
Scarborough Community Council, TTC to discuss transit options
Recommendations sought on aging RT line
david nickle
Jul. 21, 2006
Scarborough Community Council and the TTC will be sitting down sometime next month to pore over final recommendations about what to do with the aging Scarborough RT.
They will also be looking at a more detailed plan about how to make transit a viable option for gridlocked Scarborough residents.
The TTC approved holding the joint meeting in August, to come up with a firm plan for replacing the aging miniature subway train that runs between Kennedy station and McCowan Road.
The decision is looming because the line is nearing the end of its lifespan, and the manufacturer of the cars is no longer in business.
Earlier this year, consultant Richard Soberman presented three options for replacing the line.
Despite the fact the TTC would have to find someone to literally re-engineer the cars, that option turns out to be the least costly - just $350 million, compared to the $650 million it would cost to replace the line with a streetcar-style light rail system, or the $1.2 billion it would cost to replace the RT with a full subway. That last option would also have the effect of eliminating three stops along the route.
The special meeting in August will see the TTC and Scarborough Community Council settle on an option, and also look at a more comprehensive plan for improving transit in the former city.
"We have to talk about a comprehensive strategy for Scarborough," said Ward 37 Councillor Michael Thompson (Scarborough Centre), who chairs the Scarborough Community Council.
"I think we need to look at a subway, including perhaps light rail transit for Kingston Road. There is an overall plan for the city, but we have to have a more focussed approach."
The date for the meeting hasn't yet been finalized.
________________________
Scarborough Community Council, TTC to discuss transit options
Recommendations sought on aging RT line
david nickle
Jul. 21, 2006
Scarborough Community Council and the TTC will be sitting down sometime next month to pore over final recommendations about what to do with the aging Scarborough RT.
They will also be looking at a more detailed plan about how to make transit a viable option for gridlocked Scarborough residents.
The TTC approved holding the joint meeting in August, to come up with a firm plan for replacing the aging miniature subway train that runs between Kennedy station and McCowan Road.
The decision is looming because the line is nearing the end of its lifespan, and the manufacturer of the cars is no longer in business.
Earlier this year, consultant Richard Soberman presented three options for replacing the line.
Despite the fact the TTC would have to find someone to literally re-engineer the cars, that option turns out to be the least costly - just $350 million, compared to the $650 million it would cost to replace the line with a streetcar-style light rail system, or the $1.2 billion it would cost to replace the RT with a full subway. That last option would also have the effect of eliminating three stops along the route.
The special meeting in August will see the TTC and Scarborough Community Council settle on an option, and also look at a more comprehensive plan for improving transit in the former city.
"We have to talk about a comprehensive strategy for Scarborough," said Ward 37 Councillor Michael Thompson (Scarborough Centre), who chairs the Scarborough Community Council.
"I think we need to look at a subway, including perhaps light rail transit for Kingston Road. There is an overall plan for the city, but we have to have a more focussed approach."
The date for the meeting hasn't yet been finalized.
A
ahrvojic
Guest
Article
Subway dreams give way to LRT reality
Preferred options for Scarborough councillors is LRT development
SUSAN O'NEILL
Aug. 22, 2006
Building a Scarborough subway, which was unanimously supported by local councillors, is no longer being hailed as the preferred option to replace the aging Scarborough rapid transit line.
Several Scarborough councillors, who met Tuesday with Toronto Transit Commission (TTC) officials in a closed-door meeting to discuss transit options for the area, are now saying that creating a network of LRT lines is the way to go.
"I think today's meeting is really the death of the Scarborough subway and the birth of massive public transit in Scarborough. And that, for me, is incredibly exciting," TTC Commissioner and Ward 38 Councillor Glenn De Baeremaeker (Scarborough Centre) said following the meeting at the Scarborough Civic Centre.
"I think for Scarborough this is huge. This is big news."
The TTC has been reviewing options to replace the aging RT line by 2015.
And, according to a staff report that will be presented to commissioners next week, a subway is not the best option.
It was less than a year ago that Scarborough councillors gathered at Kennedy Station to launch a campaign calling for a new Scarborough subway to replace the RT, which opened in 1985 and runs between Kennedy Road and the Scarborough Town Centre. The Scarborough Mirror launched its own campaign early last fall and later presented Scarborough MPPs with thousands of citizen signatures calling for a new subway to replace the LRT.
"We all wanted the subway but I think cold, hard reality has set in," De Baeremaeker said.
Ward 37 Councillor Michael Thompson (Scarborough Centre) maintains councillors have to be "prudent and practical" when examining options for the future of transit in the area.
"It would be ideal to have the complete network and the subway," he said, adding that option isn't financially possible.
Thompson added that TTC staff is recommending a network of services to meet the area's needs rather than the creation of one costly subway line.
De Baeremaeker said the councillors in attendance at Tuesday's briefing agreed in principle that the subway simply isn't a financially sound option for the area's future transit needs.
"We didn't take a vote but I think after today's meeting, there won't be a Scarborough subway," De Baeremaeker said, adding that creating a series of light rail transit (LRT) lines is not only more economical, but would serve all of Scarborough.
De Baeremaeker reported that the TTC can either build one subway, at a cost of $1.2 billion, or build nine LRT lines at a cost of $1 billion.
"We could service 10 times as many people for the same amount of money," De Baeremaeker said, adding, "We will cover the city of Scarborough like a spider web."
He reported that the TTC could build LRT lines to replace the current Scarborough RT and to service riders along Kingston Road, Danforth Avenue, Eglinton Avenue, Lawrence Avenue, Sheppard Avenue, the Finch Avenue hydro corridor and along portions of Markham and McCowan roads.
An LRT line is an express lane dedicated solely to transit, similar to the right-of-way that's being created for the St. Clair streetcar, De Baeremaeker said.
Meanwhile, Thompson reported that Scarborough councillors will meet Friday to decide on a position regarding the subway and the TTC staff recommendations, which will be released publicly on Thursday.
"I think it's something we really need to take a closer look at," Thompson said of the creation of a broad network of bus and light rail systems across Scarborough.
Thompson said he's hoping Scarborough councillors will present a united front at the TTC meeting next week when staff is due to report on options for replacing the RT line by 2015.
Subway dreams give way to LRT reality
Preferred options for Scarborough councillors is LRT development
SUSAN O'NEILL
Aug. 22, 2006
Building a Scarborough subway, which was unanimously supported by local councillors, is no longer being hailed as the preferred option to replace the aging Scarborough rapid transit line.
Several Scarborough councillors, who met Tuesday with Toronto Transit Commission (TTC) officials in a closed-door meeting to discuss transit options for the area, are now saying that creating a network of LRT lines is the way to go.
"I think today's meeting is really the death of the Scarborough subway and the birth of massive public transit in Scarborough. And that, for me, is incredibly exciting," TTC Commissioner and Ward 38 Councillor Glenn De Baeremaeker (Scarborough Centre) said following the meeting at the Scarborough Civic Centre.
"I think for Scarborough this is huge. This is big news."
The TTC has been reviewing options to replace the aging RT line by 2015.
And, according to a staff report that will be presented to commissioners next week, a subway is not the best option.
It was less than a year ago that Scarborough councillors gathered at Kennedy Station to launch a campaign calling for a new Scarborough subway to replace the RT, which opened in 1985 and runs between Kennedy Road and the Scarborough Town Centre. The Scarborough Mirror launched its own campaign early last fall and later presented Scarborough MPPs with thousands of citizen signatures calling for a new subway to replace the LRT.
"We all wanted the subway but I think cold, hard reality has set in," De Baeremaeker said.
Ward 37 Councillor Michael Thompson (Scarborough Centre) maintains councillors have to be "prudent and practical" when examining options for the future of transit in the area.
"It would be ideal to have the complete network and the subway," he said, adding that option isn't financially possible.
Thompson added that TTC staff is recommending a network of services to meet the area's needs rather than the creation of one costly subway line.
De Baeremaeker said the councillors in attendance at Tuesday's briefing agreed in principle that the subway simply isn't a financially sound option for the area's future transit needs.
"We didn't take a vote but I think after today's meeting, there won't be a Scarborough subway," De Baeremaeker said, adding that creating a series of light rail transit (LRT) lines is not only more economical, but would serve all of Scarborough.
De Baeremaeker reported that the TTC can either build one subway, at a cost of $1.2 billion, or build nine LRT lines at a cost of $1 billion.
"We could service 10 times as many people for the same amount of money," De Baeremaeker said, adding, "We will cover the city of Scarborough like a spider web."
He reported that the TTC could build LRT lines to replace the current Scarborough RT and to service riders along Kingston Road, Danforth Avenue, Eglinton Avenue, Lawrence Avenue, Sheppard Avenue, the Finch Avenue hydro corridor and along portions of Markham and McCowan roads.
An LRT line is an express lane dedicated solely to transit, similar to the right-of-way that's being created for the St. Clair streetcar, De Baeremaeker said.
Meanwhile, Thompson reported that Scarborough councillors will meet Friday to decide on a position regarding the subway and the TTC staff recommendations, which will be released publicly on Thursday.
"I think it's something we really need to take a closer look at," Thompson said of the creation of a broad network of bus and light rail systems across Scarborough.
Thompson said he's hoping Scarborough councillors will present a united front at the TTC meeting next week when staff is due to report on options for replacing the RT line by 2015.
U
unimaginative2
Guest
That's absurd. Replace the RT with a streetcar? That's a reduction in capacity on an already-overcrowded route. An LRT on Sheppard? So we're now going to make the connection at Don Mills permanent? Now the subway is truly useless. There's a cabal of streetcar-lovers in the TTC which is slowly indoctrinating all the councillors to hate subways. The downtown councillors, in whose wards subways actually make sense, were converted first. I've got nothing against LRT, and there are lots of places where it makes sense (Kingston Road, for example), but I can't accept that the only route that is supposedly suited to subway runs through an industrial park to a sinkhole. Conspiratorial? Yes.
C
cdl42
Guest
I support a subway to Scarborough Centre, but I am willing to see that there are funding limitations which is forcing people to look at more realistic options. I don't think there is any conspiracy, and I don't think there are any biased LRT-lovers at the TTC. In fact, everything I have ever heard from folks who are involved at the comission on a regular basis is that the commission is still obsessed with subways. It isn't even really the TTC doing this study, it's the consultant they hired and right from the beginning he has stated that money simply isn't there for a subway. He has also pointed out that an LRT (which doesn't mean the same as a streetcar) would not mean a decrease in capacity (as has James Bow for several years now); the RT cars aren't big to begin with.
I mean, hating subways? C'mon! Give anyone a few billion to spend and I'm sure they would quickly start planning subways again, but that just isn't happening.
I mean, hating subways? C'mon! Give anyone a few billion to spend and I'm sure they would quickly start planning subways again, but that just isn't happening.
C
cassiusa
Guest
It takes some people 1/2hr (and in some places more) just to reach the Town Centre. This needs to improve. Building a series of LRT on their own right of ways throughout scarborough is the only realistic way to get people to the Town Centre faster in my opinion. Initially I was all for running the subway but after some thought it's not the right route to go.
U
unimaginative2
Guest
I was obviously kidding about the conspiracy, but it's certainly true that there are a lot of LRT-lovers at the TTC. I can also assure you, after having worked for a commissioner, that there is no fixation on subways by the commission. What they might describe as obsession with subways would probably be better described as a belief that subways aren't completely unrealistic on all new routes.
How on earth is any consultant to know whether money is there for a subway or not? Did he go into an extensive examination of the fiscal capacities of the federal and provincial governments? If the politicians and residents of Scarborough push hard enough for it, the money will be there. If they back off and say "Oh, okay, LRT would be fine," it won't be.
On the capacity issue, you're of course correct. Why, though, would the TTC spend hundreds of millions of dollars more than refurbishment to rip out all the track and replace the RT with a system with idential capacity?
I certainly support new LRT lines replacing congested bus routes if they can get signal and left-turning issues worked out.
How on earth is any consultant to know whether money is there for a subway or not? Did he go into an extensive examination of the fiscal capacities of the federal and provincial governments? If the politicians and residents of Scarborough push hard enough for it, the money will be there. If they back off and say "Oh, okay, LRT would be fine," it won't be.
On the capacity issue, you're of course correct. Why, though, would the TTC spend hundreds of millions of dollars more than refurbishment to rip out all the track and replace the RT with a system with idential capacity?
I certainly support new LRT lines replacing congested bus routes if they can get signal and left-turning issues worked out.
C
cassiusa
Guest
But is it going to be the same capacity? Has the TTC or their consultants released anything yet to the public with regards to their exact plans (assuming funds are available)? I highly doubt they'd even consider a plan for RT replacement if they weren't planning on also increasing overall capacity. We don't even know if these new LRT lines are all going to terminate at the same place as they do now (SCC [McCowan] or Kennedy).Why, though, would the TTC spend hundreds of millions of dollars more than refurbishment to rip out all the track and replace the RT with a system with idential capacity?
M
maxy505
Guest
If it's done right, LRT will be 10x better than a subway (big if, though). Travel time within Scarborough will be universally better -- and there's a lot more of that than there is people going downtown. Even so, travel time downtown can still be improved for 90% of Scarborough!
The subway can always be built at any point in the future. LRT now is a much much better choice.
The subway can always be built at any point in the future. LRT now is a much much better choice.