AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Credit has to be earned - everyone can say that they will build a subway, not everyone can do the work to make it happen. Keep milking the narrative that he is a doer though.
AoD
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Credit has to be earned - everyone can say that they will build a subway, not everyone can do the work to make it happen. Keep milking the narrative that he is a doer though.
AoD
OneCity
Senior Member
This is not so much an endorsement for Ford but to highlight the useless tactic the Opposition took on this topic for the last decade. Although im not sure what else could have been done under Ford admin to deliver his mandate. His Crosstown to SCC was rejected. He lobbied his buddies Flaherty and Harper in Ottawa. And council also raised tax specifically for the Stintz GlennD subway rendition. (Although at that point transit was out of his control.) Lobbying for a DRL tax with a united voice to upper levels are things the Opposition leaders should be pushing for instead of throwing a tantrum or trying to axe a seamless connection to SCC the last decade against ridiculous support.
If the Province takes over the subways with help of the Feds, and left the City to build LRT Tory has done well in my opinion given the difficult circumstances
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AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
4 years later since his term ended, are we anywhere close to getting a seamless connection to SCC yet? Wait -are we even past the planning phase yet with a clear handle on how much it will cost with engineering drawings to go? Also, keep in mind that in his MOU with the province, the portion the city is responsible for is Sheppard, not ECLRT to SCC. An effective leader would be able to shepherd projects along - not blow them up, p*ss off everyone and leave a gaping mess that is still in cleanup mode. That's his transit legacy.
AoD
OneCity
Senior Member
Then previous leader must have made some really poor decisons to leave Ford as his legacy. Miller did not listen to the people on both unions and transit and people rallied when it was called out. Poor leadership and blame is in abundance
Murrays subway or a seamless Crosstown should have been a given once the transfers were called out.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Actually Miller's real fault isn't this - but not being interested in/able to prioritize DRL instead of the suburban network - that is where the crisis point in the system is, as it is so evident then, and especially now.
As to legacy - said it before, will say it again - those who voted for Ford has to own that decision. Being reactionary and not practicing the basic principle of buyer beware is a personal choice.
AoD
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OneCity
Senior Member
Certainly add that one to the list. It's huge and a big part of the current divide. And he also supported the Vaughan Metro Centre extension knowing transfers were placed before a struggling SCC in two locations.
Miller got by with the let's just do something vote. Even Scarborough council had to work with him to get other things accomplished once the request for subway was ignored. He didn't really listen to the voters all too well and then it was called out for just that and here we are. Compromise was needed and still needs to be In order going forward. And just move on.
We will have a better leader once a strong Left candidate reaches over to support voters in all areas of the City. Tory has done decent and really good at bridging to move forward but we do need to raise taxes a bit sooner or later
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syn
Senior Member
As much as 'the left' is attacked on transit file, we've had two terms of 'right wing' Mayors who've accomplished very little. All of the project management and 'business' experience they claimed to bring to the table has had virtually no positive impact. Ford and Tory have not only not been able to stick to a budget, they've been incapable of even establishing a budget to stick to.
I don't think the TYSSE should've been built, but it was funded and under construction before Miller left office. The Eglinton LRT was under construction a year after he left office, and that's entirely in spite of Ford, who wanted it canceled.
Miller was far more successful than Ford and Tory at getting transit funded and built in Toronto.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
It’s a bit of an inconvenient truth that Mayor Miller got more subways funded and under construction than any other mayor in Toronto’s history. Some 21 stations over 18 kilometres; more than a 25% increase in the size of the network
Ford and Tory combined have maybe managed the addition of a single subway stop.
Of course we can debate endlessly about if or how those subways should have been built. But it’s bloody ridiculous to act as if Miller was an ineffective transit leader. Heck, much of Tory’s transit plans are just rehashes of Miller-era proposals.
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TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Oh, and let’s not forget that Miller was the last mayor we had that understood we need to properly fund TTC operations, and not just focus on expansion. Thats a rare attribute for a politician. Polticians would typically rather focus on expansion (or musing about expansion), while ignoring the politically inconvenient costs of operating the system. After 4 years of Tory, the TTC still hasn’t returned to Miller-era service levels.
Kyle Campbell
Active Member
I think the stasis over the last few years has really been crippling. So let's imagine for a moment they cancelled the Scarborough extension. Now what, they don't have any plan for the now SRT, which has been left to rot in the expectation that it will be replaced.
Maybe they should pull a REM out of the proverbial hat, forgo the subway, and instead extend the SRT along the smart track route until where it would hit the DLR route making a continuous line from downtown to STC. Get some 5 car Mark iii trains and it might just work.
Maybe they should pull a REM out of the proverbial hat, forgo the subway, and instead extend the SRT along the smart track route until where it would hit the DLR route making a continuous line from downtown to STC. Get some 5 car Mark iii trains and it might just work.
OneCity
Senior Member
Millers appetite for short-sighted capital decisions was a bi product of the Feds and Province ignoring Toronto for decades. What he should have been doing was screaming and lobbying to fund projects actually supported by residents but he choose to get clever and inevitably the plan failed on actual support of people. Until the Left crosses over to support major projects in all areas of the City. Not DRL vs SSE, not poorly integrated Band-Aid solutions or doing nothing like Miller unfortunately choose. These were important decisions that propelled Fords support to follow.
If a Left candidate takes on Torys lobbying efforts for projects supported by the people across the entire City in addition to funding service levels adequately they can become very much relevant again in the Mayoral race. Otherwise if the only moderate is representing the majority of voters on key projects is on the Right of Centre there really is no competition and Right leaning candidates will continue to have very high support of voters.
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Cobra
Senior Member
innsertnamehere
Superstar
I find that Tory has been pretty good about TTC operating spending. Items like 2 hour transfers and the expanded express bus network have been floundering for years and Tory has been the one to actually implement them. Not perfect, but not horrible either.
Cobra
Senior Member
But when Eglinton was merged with the SRT, that transfer was accepted. It's more than just the transfer it seems
Cobra
Senior Member
He was fully able to start with the DRL. Politics went to his head, period. We'd be closer to Phase I opening instead of post 2030s. There's plenty of blame to go around but a pet peeves of mine is minimizing Miller's actions. Sheppard East being a higher priority than the DRL is just as bad, just as nuts as doubling down on the 1 stop subway.