Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[ndawgg]

John Tory has said his wife will only "let him" do two terms. Do you think that the SSE has gotten so out of control that when/if he wins the election, and he knows it will be his last term, he'll act like suddenly he's discovered all the facts and data (that we've seen all along) and cause him to go against the SSE in its current form?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

John Tory has said his wife will only "let him" do two terms. Do you think that the SSE has gotten so out of control that when/if he wins the election, and he knows it will be his last term, he'll act like suddenly he's discovered all the facts and data (that we've seen all along) and cause him to go against the SSE in its current form?

If my memory serves me correctly, prior to his 2014 campaign, Mr. Tory didn't even support the Scarborough Subway.

Regardless, his top priority is getting elected. The Scarborough Subway is a means to that end. After his reelection, I don't think he'll have any skin in the game, with regards to the SSE. He won't need to to get reelected, and probably doesn't care if it ever gets built. I don't expect that he'll actively work to cancel the plan, but I don't expect that he'll be fighting particularly hard to save it from cancellation either.

 

[BurlOak]

If my memory serves me correctly, prior to his 2014 campaign, Mr. Tory didn't even support the Scarborough Subway.

Regardless, his top priority is getting elected. The Scarborough Subway is a means to that end. After his reelection, I don't think he'll have any skin in the game, with regards to the SSE. He won't need to to get reelected, and probably doesn't care if it ever gets built. I don't expect that he'll actively work to cancel the plan, but I don't expect that he'll be fighting particularly hard to save it from cancellation either.

I recall Tory and Mitzi Hunter worked together on some civic thing supporting the LRT.
I think Tory does not actually support this, but he knows how many powerful Liberals do and was afraid to raise an objection.

 

[syn]

John Tory has said his wife will only "let him" do two terms. Do you think that the SSE has gotten so out of control that when/if he wins the election, and he knows it will be his last term, he'll act like suddenly he's discovered all the facts and data (that we've seen all along) and cause him to go against the SSE in its current form?

It wouldn't be a shock - that's why they're releasing the revised cost after the election(s).

Once Ford stirred the pot it was essentially political suicide to not support the thing. With no worries about re-election he can freely do what's best for the city.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I recall Tory and Mitzi Hunter worked together on some civic thing supporting the LRT.
I think Tory does not actually support this, but he knows how many powerful Liberals do and was afraid to raise an objection.

In his most recent interview, Mr. Tory admitted that he has to support things he might not want to support, for the sake of political expediency. Might be the most honest Mr. Tory has ever been.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I recall Tory and Mitzi Hunter worked together on some civic thing supporting the LRT.
I think Tory does not actually support this, but he knows how many powerful Liberals do and was afraid to raise an objection.

That's revisionist - he may not "support" it, but he certainly supported it not because of the Liberals, but because of his own need for votes. Not that it will be any different given the stance of PCs and NDP on this file.

It is a bed he will have to sleep in now. It truly is funny how something this expensive for what it offers managed to get uncritical and unconditional support from supposedly responsible guardians of the taxpayers*, ethically challenged political opportunists** and far left socialists***. I think the province is blessed with such a display of unity and commitment to transit justice.

AoD

 

[steveintoronto]

John Tory has said his wife will only "let him" do two terms. Do you think that the SSE has gotten so out of control that when/if he wins the election, and he knows it will be his last term, he'll act like suddenly he's discovered all the facts and data (that we've seen all along) and cause him to go against the SSE in its current form?

That's an interesting question. "Legacy" manifest. Maybe Keesmaat can also be absolved of 'guilt by association' over this? (In case anyone mistakes that, accounts show she resisted it all she could behind the scenes)

 

[micheal_can]

Does anyone know how much the 5 stop TYSSE cost?

 

[steveintoronto]

That's revisionist - he may not "support" it, but he certainly supported it not because of the Liberals, but because of his own need for votes. Not that it will be any different given the stance of PCs and NDP on this file.

It is a bed he will have to sleep in now. It truly is funny how something this expensive for what it offers managed to get uncritical and unconditional support from supposedly responsible guardians of the taxpayers*, ethically challenged political opportunists** and far left socialists***. I think the province is blessed with such a display of unity and commitment to transit justice.

AoD

And it must never be forgotten, as much as Tory "spearheaded" this, he has only one vote on Council. And the majority of Council not only voted for it, a clear majority refused a motion to examine the reports behind it.

Lots of blame to go around...

 

[innsertnamehere]

Does anyone know how much the 5 stop TYSSE cost?

It was 6 stops, and cost a little under $3 billion.

 

[Streety McCarface]

It was 6 stops, and cost a little under $3 billion.

Wasn't it 3.2 billion? And if you're thinking of the extra costs contractors are claiming, we won't know the true costs for a few years.

 

[micheal_can]

It was 6 stops, and cost a little under $3 billion.

Wasn't it 3.2 billion? And if you're thinking of the extra costs contractors are claiming, we won't know the true costs for a few years.

6 stops? Sorry, my bad.

So, why is the SSE going to be so much more? It is shorter. It has less stops... it should be cheaper.

 

[Streety McCarface]

6 stops? Sorry, my bad.

So, why is the SSE going to be so much more? It is shorter. It has less stops... it should be cheaper.

Deeper tunnels, tunneling under creeks and rivers, larger stations, more expensive contractor costs, scarcity of workers, inflation, etc.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Deeper tunnels, tunneling under creeks and rivers, larger stations, more expensive contractor costs, scarcity of workers, inflation, etc.

Biggest factor of all seems to be inflation, and the rising cost of construction.

 

[OneCity]

John Tory has said his wife will only "let him" do two terms. Do you think that the SSE has gotten so out of control that when/if he wins the election, and he knows it will be his last term, he'll act like suddenly he's discovered all the facts and data (that we've seen all along) and cause him to go against the SSE in its current form?

Highly doubt this, to the point I really don't think it is being considered as the outfall would be historically insane. Ford will be trumpeting this exact narrative to unseat Tory. Whether Tory agrees or not the cancellation would easily start civic war and a complete council meltdown that could impact all projects and the following election would be insanity like we've never seen it. If anything I think most want to move on for everyone sake and believe its just as possible Tory may have supported the one stop rendition just to keep the subway alive and has already had discussions with relevant Provincial leaders about uploading the entire project. The Cons made it clear and well find this answer as to the Liberal plan very soon and I don't expect them to back down before an election for many reasons.

Also GO RER may now be in conflict with the RT corridor which would have construction impact for any technology. Unfortunate as the RT corridor could have taken both subway and a better connected LRT and found some savings. But both were already rejected and Glen Murrays subway was estimated to be just under $3B so while the savings are certainly there they may not be as significant when we consider further inflation, studies & further delays on this project and possibly others too.

And this is all assuming Tory wins and im not sure that is the slam dunk being portrayed either. He's unquestionably limping into next election with quite the neutered transit plan from what he came with in 2014.