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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

http://poll.forumresearch.com/m/post/2686/pcs-overtake-liberals-in-toronto/

Polls in details

Not looking good for the Liberals anywhere except East York and old Toronto...not that these numbers are anything to celebrate for the Liberals.

They lost Etobicoke, North York

Scarborough is dead even.

kEiThZ said:
And this is why I suspect the subway will get built....
Click to expand...

Subway or "subways"? Seems the only way for the Liberals to get Toronto back is this:

Massively expand the subway system to bring us on par with other major metropolis around the world...or else.
 
WislaHD said:
I got to wonder how much extra it would cost to grade-separate Eglinton in Scarborough.

We got 4 TBMs not really doing anything at the moment.
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It was $2 Billion more expensive under Fords plan to put it all underground. The travel time savings was only a few minutes, and there is already a subway and a GO line to Kennedy, would hardly have been worth the cost.
 
Voltz said:
It was $2 Billion more expensive under Fords plan to put it all underground. The travel time savings was only a few minutes, and there is already a subway and a GO line to Kennedy, would hardly have been worth the cost.
Click to expand...
But we're spending 3.5 billion to get rid of a few minutes in the current plan too.

Not that I disagree with the general point of your post. But seeing as I completely lack faith in Metrolinx in implementing decent signal priority, I must admit I'd prefer total grade separation in concept cause I'm pretty sure the Crosstown East will be an exercise in frustration when riding it daily. Costs aside, of course. I don't know how much a skytrain esque system would cost relative to the at-grade one, but I do know it would be cheaper than underground.

kEiThZ said:
http://www.torontosun.com/2017/03/17/liberals-may-be-losing-death-grip-on-toronto-poll

And this is why I suspect the subway will get built....
Click to expand...
I doubt the liberals will win, so another government could cancel the project. But if thats the hill the liberals choose to die on, the NDP and conservatives might not want to risk swaying those areas back to liberal control. Humans tend to have short memories.
 
Voltz said:
It was $2 Billion more expensive under Fords plan to put it all underground. The travel time savings was only a few minutes, and there is already a subway and a GO line to Kennedy, would hardly have been worth the cost.
Click to expand...

Yes and that extra $2B would have solved Scarborough once and for all while permanently upgrade Eglinton.

We save $2B to spend $3.35B on a one stop subway. Do the math instead of this pointless LRT fits all rethoric
 
APTA-2048 said:
While sacrificing Finch West (why does everyone always leave this out).
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Which is money the city could have raised itself to build. Why are we still forgetting that we're raising over a billion for the one stop subway?

If you ask me, Eglinton Crosstown merged with the SRT paid 100% by Queen's Park with Toronto raising the money for Finch is still a better scenario than what we have today
 
Voltz said:
It was $2 Billion more expensive under Fords plan to put it all underground. The travel time savings was only a few minutes, and there is already a subway and a GO line to Kennedy, would hardly have been worth the cost.
Click to expand...

Furthermore consider that the surface Eglinton LRT, once connected to the Relief Line, will still be significantly faster for downtown-bound travel than the Line 2 subway.
 
Cobra said:
Which is money the city could have raised itself to build. Why are we still forgetting that we're raising over a billion for the one stop subway?

If you ask me, Eglinton Crosstown merged with the SRT paid 100% by Queen's Park with Toronto raising the money for Finch is still a better scenario than what we have today
Click to expand...

Considering that Toronto raised only $700 Million for SSE, the City would never raise $1.2 Billion for Finch. It would be dead.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
Furthermore consider that the surface Eglinton LRT, once connected to the Relief Line, will still be significantly faster for downtown-bound travel than the Line 2 subway.
Click to expand...

Here's the thing. Why should anybody pin hopes on the DRL?

The SRT was supposed to reach Malvern in the 1990s. And even the current LRT plan doesn't reach Malvern Town. The Sheppard subway was supposed to reach Scarborough Town. Didn't make it over the 404.

And now you're asking people to bank on the DRL reaching Eglinton? Given the City's track record, why should they?

It's not hoing to happen in the working lifetime of anybody here. Not without a serious change of the way transit is managed in the GTA. And definitely not with the aversion to tax increases most Toronto residents have.
 
Last edited:
To come up with exact cost projections it must be known how much of it will be tunneled and above ground. Surely it won't all be unnecessarily tunneled.
 
While I'm waiting for ssiguy to get back to me on this history of this, I'll answer Cobra:
Cobra said:
It would have been cheaper than the current plan to
  • fix the current SRT rails and equipment
  • buy MkIII trains
  • Have the SRT end at subway level at Kennedy Station (Like Don Mills Station transfer between LRT and Subway)
  • Have the curved path between Kennedy and the SRT alignment be underground
  • Run the whole thing at grade
  • Triton Bus terminal is actually a good idea
  • Have the SRT go below ground under the STC district to support city planning vision for the district
  • Have the SRT go above ground past the STC district to go to Centennial then to Malvern via Sheppard Avenue East.
So:
  1. Kennedy Station, underground with easy transfer with subway
  2. Kennedy to SRT path: Underground via curve to accommodate MK.III Trains
  3. SRT path to STC new district: above ground
  4. STC District: Underground
  5. Past STC district to Malvern: old EA as planned with mix elevated and underground
Click to expand...
  • Okay
  • Okay
  • So rip out the Kennedy tail tracks. Presumably they are used for train storage at present and losing them wouldn't result in terminal congestion in typical operation (including recovering from incidents)?
  • That would be an interesting conversation with the property owners, considering how much people are freaking out about a subway *under* Pape.
  • "At grade" is only possible in private right of way - i.e. the existing north-south SRT tracks. SRT cars (of any Mark) are not designed to operate at grade AND without fully private right of way.
  • Triton: *shrugs*, as long as it properly accommodates local and regional traffic. Haven't looked at the proposal deeply yet.
  • SRT underground through STC - in which alignment? If it impacts the elevated, that's significant SRT downtime and given the length of the district may become the limiting factor for how long SRT is offline.
  • SRT overground - okay. Locals won't like the overhead blight but that seems like a minor problem compared to the Kennedy-SRT bend
Here's my alternative - I call it "you get Hoynes":
  • buy a large number of Vancouver's or Detroit's Mark Is, even at replacement cost, and upgrade the signalling to automate the line. Vancouver's demand looked like highway robbery before, cheap at twice the price now.
  • Refit the existing Mark Is to either operate with autosignals or as mid-cars bookended by auto capable cars in 6 car trainsets. Hopefully McCowan can handle 6 car sets, otherwise upgrade as being done at Davisville.
  • Look at sheltering options for the worst parts of the alignment for snow related disruption.
  • Extend to Sheppard per previous EA.
  • Having spent a significant sum of $, move on to transit needs elsewhere in the city.
 
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