News   Jul 15, 2024
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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

An idea for serving the STC area after the subway is build:

1) Chose the Brimley Rd route, and place the subway terminus in the area bounded by Brimley, Progress, Borough Dr, and Triton Rd. Basically, that's just east of Brimley and north of the SRT path. A new bus terminal would be located in the same area

2) Once the subway opens, do not completely de-commission SRT. Remove the section that runs between Brimley and Kennedy Stn, and build a new station at Brimley.

Thus, we will have a short route serving 3 stops in the area: Brimley, old STC, and McCowan. Since the SRT cars will be refurbished, and the greatly shortened line will require just a fraction of today's car fleet, it shouldn't be difficult to select enough cars to operate until 2030 if needed. The old yard still can be utilized.

3) Before 2030, the city should figure out what kind of transit it wants to see in the today's East-West SRT corridor, and hopefully come up with some funding as well. At that point, SRT can be retired completely and replaced with a new service.

That new service can be a high-floor LRT that runs along Sheppard to Don Mills Stn, and then takes over the Sheppard Subway tunnel. Or, it could be a low-floor LRT that's compatible with the future Eglinton East and Finch East LRT lines.
One bg problem with that Idea the current SRT fleet is over 40 years old at this point. The work they are doing on them is basically to keep them running until either the subway is built or an LRT gets put in whichever is deemed to be the best solution. They definitely will not be keeping the current rolling stock until 2030 it will be ridiculously old at that point.
 
One bg problem with that Idea the current SRT fleet is over 40 years old at this point. The work they are doing on them is basically to keep them running until either the subway is built or an LRT gets put in whichever is deemed to be the best solution. They definitely will not be keeping the current rolling stock until 2030 it will be ridiculously old at that point.

Like the CLRV and the ALRV?
 
Like the CLRV and the ALRV?
Yes but unlike the SRT cars they are replacing them. The current refurbishment program with them is basically to keep them running until whenever the city makes up its mind about what is going to replace it. The CLRVS and ALRVS wr going to go through one too but they realized it could be dangerous having a wheelchair lift in the middle of the street.
 
Like the CLRV and the ALRV?

Nice zinger, but no one would say that life extension of CLRV or ALRV is good business sense. TTC is suing Bombardier because those life extensions are not sustainable.

SRT life cycle is over. We need something new, even if it is similar.

- Paul
 
Yes but unlike the SRT cars they are replacing them. The current refurbishment program with them is basically to keep them running until whenever the city makes up its mind about what is going to replace it. The CLRVS and ALRVS wr going to go through one too but they realized it could be dangerous having a wheelchair lift in the middle of the street.

Nice zinger, but no one would say that life extension of CLRV or ALRV is good business sense. TTC is suing Bombardier because those life extensions are not sustainable.

SRT life cycle is over. We need something new, even if it is similar.

- Paul

They are still running them, right? The SRT cars are slightly newer than the CLRV and ALRV. Those streetcars likely will still be around till 2020. That will make them 40 years old. If the current fleet of SRT cars were kept till 2025, then they also would be 40 years old.

Is it a good idea? No. Does the TTC do that kind of thing - YES!
 
My half-baked idea for STC, rather than a deep, deep station and tail tracks is a cut and cover loop around the mall, with two shallow, single platform stations, one on the McCowan side and the other near Brimley.
 
No question deep bore heavy rail subways are expensive and seeing obscene inflation, but that SSE quote doesn't make any sense. If one station over 6km works out to be over half a billion per kilometre, then projects like RL or Sheppard Extn would be like +$1bn/km.
 
The context of the two projects is totally different. TYSSE is mostly built under hydro corridors, woodlots and empty land. SSE is not.
 
Reality check time...

Cci02UFc_normal.jpg
Ben Spurr@BenSpurr
15 mins ago
Full cost of 8.6 km, 6-station TYSSE is $3.2B, split between Feds, province, Toronto, and York Region.

In Scarborough, that same cost is getting us 1 station and 6 km of track.

How is it costing the same?
 
The context of the two projects is totally different. TYSSE is mostly built under hydro corridors, woodlots and empty land. SSE is not.

Huh? There might be good reasons for the price difference, but land use along the line doesn't seem to be it (TYSSE most definitely isn't mostly under hydro corridors, woodlots and empty land)

AoD
 
No question deep bore heavy rail subways are expensive and seeing obscene inflation, but that SSE quote doesn't make any sense. If one station over 6km works out to be over half a billion per kilometre, then projects like RL or Sheppard Extn would be like +$1bn/km.

It seems like each progressive phase of subway expansion in Toronto gets deeper. Any idea why?
 
No question deep bore heavy rail subways are expensive and seeing obscene inflation, but that SSE quote doesn't make any sense. If one station over 6km works out to be over half a billion per kilometre, then projects like RL or Sheppard Extn would be like +$1bn/km.

If you believe the TTC, the cost of building materials is skyrocketing.
 
It seems like each progressive phase of subway expansion in Toronto gets deeper. Any idea why?

I haven't looked at any SSE reports in a while, so I'm just guessing. But it could be selective/bias reporting from the media, mixed with odd numbers from the City/TTC. Maybe inflation has been put at a 2025 construction date, costs have included seldom-seen 100yr life cycle, and the only alignment presented is the costliest (e.g tunneling 30m below West Highland Crk). But even then the numbers seem too high. There's only one station, and those are usu the biggies in terms of cost.
 
Reality check time...

Cci02UFc_normal.jpg
Ben Spurr@BenSpurr
15 mins ago
Full cost of 8.6 km, 6-station TYSSE is $3.2B, split between Feds, province, Toronto, and York Region.

In Scarborough, that same cost is getting us 1 station and 6 km of track.

Reality check time

Add some stations, look for an optimized route (as they should have been doing), add an empty field, reduce the population and change name to Vaughan and off we go.
 

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