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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

innsertnamehere said:
I want to like him, as he fought Fords nonsense about the subway in council, but the subway is the better choice in the end. His hate towards the OMB sort of annoys me as well.
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Why would his hate towards the OMB annoy you? No other province has the OMB equivalent. And the subway is not the better choice
 
I'm rather indecided on the OMB, I think I would rather its powers be cut back in some form rather than complete elimination. as for the subway and why I support it, I'll copy a reddit post I made a while ago so I don't have to re-type it all.

I support the subway for a couple of reasons:

1. I am of the opinion that transit should be built correctly, not just the cheapest possible way. This means that LRT works on corridors such as Finch, Eglinton, and Sheppard, where ridership is low and works well with LRT but would be too low to justify a subway. The Scarborough subway meanwhile will get roughly 2.5 times the ridership of Eglinton, and 4 times that of Sheppard. The level of demand on the corridor, while it could work with LRT, also completely justifies a subway, and actually beats DRL ridership projections by a small amount.

2. It makes the Sheppard LRT (which I fully support) a whole lot more useful. Previously SELRT users would have had to ride the LRT to don mills, transfer to the sheppard subway, and transfer again to Yonge. The SRT connection to the SELRT was too far east and proved to be little worth, while the subway connection is right in the middle of the LRT line meaning a faster commute for SELRT riders.

3. Time savings. While the physical speed of the trains for the SRT LRT isn't much different than a subway, there is an additional transfer, more stations, and some tight curves that the trains need to slow down for. The subway extension will cut 7-10 minutes off of the travel time to STC.

4. no SRT closure. for the LRT the SRT would have been closed for 3-4 years, roughly from 2016 to 2019. This makes a TTC commute for Scarborough utter hell, as bad as it currently is. It would have a major effect on Scarboroughs economy as well, as access to it would become much more difficult. GO buses would no longer stop at STC as there would be no TTC connection, etc. commutes would skyrocket by 15-20 minutes for the time. Scarborough is already the least accessable part of the city, getting rid of its transit connection for half a decade isn't a good idea.
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There is also the political realities of going back on the vote now, how the province will probably force through the really, really shitty subway plan that Murray concocted that just went to STC, and the fact that the induced delays from this whole shenanigan means the LRT will likely now open only a year or two before the subway plan if the decision is to be reversed.
 
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But if the Liberals do gain a majority what are the chances they will build the subway, even Murray's version
 
why would they not build it if they loose the seat? The money is there (and in terms of the provincial money, it has been there since 2009).. I get the feeling you are grasping at straws.. It generally isn't a good idea to argue with "what ifs".
 
innsertnamehere said:
why would they not build it if they loose the seat? The money is there (and in terms of the provincial money, it has been there since 2009).. I get the feeling you are grasping at straws.. It generally isn't a good idea to argue with "what ifs".
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Because its not the plan they ever wanted to do. Simple as that. They loose the Scarbough seat, but win a majority, they can do whatever saves money which means LRT. It will be built way before another election and since they never won that seat it will not matter. But for all those other people who now get an LRT stop in Scarborough and better transit they will be happy
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
Murray's plan only goes to STC but it would be open before the city plan. Then I bet the city reopens sheppard...
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If Ford gets re-elected, yes there is a possibility the Sheppard Subway debate will be reopened. If the Ontario PC party gets elected, yes, the Sheppeard Subway debate will be reopened and probably will be built. If someone like Karen Stintz, Olivia Chow or John Tory is elected mayor, the Sheppard LRT will stay on track, same if the Ontario Grits are re-elected.
 
Palma said:
They will gain more money to spend elsewhere
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Not really, the political fallout from pulling the funding (even if moving it elsewhere in the municipality) would be too large, never mind so extremely hypocritical. If we have learned anything about the grits over the last few years, its that they stand by their decisions.
 
Palma said:
Because its not the plan they ever wanted to do. Simple as that. They loose the Scarbough seat, but win a majority, they can do whatever saves money which means LRT. It will be built way before another election and since they never won that seat it will not matter. But for all those other people who now get an LRT stop in Scarborough and better transit they will be happy
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Palma said:
They will gain more money to spend elsewhere
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I happen to think the right choice here was (is) LRT but I can't understand your notion that going back to it somehow saves the province any money. The provincial contribution to the subway is only that which they would have spent going alone on the LRT. The additional money to go from LRT is coming from the city and the feds.

I think the only level of government that could back away from subway and bring the LRT back is the city.
 
StevieD said:
If Ford gets re-elected, yes there is a possibility the Sheppard Subway debate will be reopened. If the Ontario PC party gets elected, yes, the Sheppeard Subway debate will be reopened and probably will be built. If someone like Karen Stintz, Olivia Chow or John Tory is elected mayor, the Sheppard LRT will stay on track, same if the Ontario Grits are re-elected.
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I see only two likely scenarios:
1. Hudak gets elected. Sheppard LRT gets cancelled. I doubt if we will see a subway because he will be in cutback mode, so we will get nothing. Maybe Eglinton gets reduced in length and replaced with a subway.
2. Wynne gets elected. Transit taxes pass, council has yet another debate about building the Sheppard subway with the $30 billion in funding and the LRT is cancelled and replaced with subway. Maybe there is a debate about making Eglinton elevated as well.

Sheppard LRT is a terrible proposal that was essentially Miller's pet project, and I can't see it ever being built without Miller in power. There simply isn't very much support for it aside from a bunch of left wing councillors.
 
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