Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[KevinT]

Relying on overbuilt trains being able to absorb crashing into one another doesn't sound like a higher standard, it sounds like the exact opposite. Why are so many of our trains expected to withstand a collision?

Former Amtrak president Thomas Downs once famously complained that the FRA had turned their new Acela trains into "rolling bank vaults" with their buff strength requirement. I seem to recall that the US began to relax on this requirement for passenger rail in the past year or three, but suspect that Canadian regs have yet to catch up.

 

[cplchanb]

Former Amtrak president Thomas Downs once famously complained that the FRA had turned their new Acela trains into "rolling bank vaults" with their buff strength requirement. I seem to recall that the US began to relax on this requirement for passenger rail in the past year or three, but suspect that Canadian regs have yet to catch up.

iirc didnt the regs allow for either beefed up bodies or PTC? if thats true its more now on the fact that the railroads are just too lazy or penny pinchers to outfit their lines with preventative safety devices and are just relying on others to provide reactive safeties aka CEM.

 

[lenaitch]

I never really understood until now...... In the last century, boondoggles and fantasy projects that had little chance of ever getting built were so indicated by adding "& Pacific" or "& Hudson Bay" to their name.

Now we just label them "Phase II". Much more efficient.

- Paul

Romanticism of the age of expansion and settlement, plus attracting investors to the potential of the terra incognita. At least Canadian Pacific made it there. The Algoma Central and Hudson's Bay railway came up a little short. I guess if you included a cardinal direction ('& northwestern') it gave you a little wiggle room ('I didn't mean that far').

 

[chrisw]

Ok... The original Yonge Line took5years to build. That was in the 1950s. This extension will take about 10 years. The original line as7.4 km. This extension is 7.8km. That is a very good comparison. 5 more years for 0.4km?

We're also delaying the construction of the YNSE so that it finishes at the same time as the Ontario Line.

 

[micheal_can]

We're also delaying the construction of the YNSE so that it finishes at the same time as the Ontario Line.

I know why. I half heartedly agree. Line 1 cannot support an extension without the OL. The OL should have been built decades ago.

 

[drum118]

Until the OL gets built to Steeles, let alone Hwy 7 let alone Line 2, Line 1 is up the shit creek without a paddle come 2050. With the amount of development being built, in the planning stage and looking at where more density can be built within 700 meters of Yonge as well on Line 1, there is no capacity to handle the ridership within Toronto, let alone going into York Region. Even the Line 2 extension up to Finch/Steeles/Hwy 7 will only put more pressure on Line 1 south of Bloor as well the Yonge station.

Those who will be around them better start calling for a 2nd Yonge line that will have to go south on Bay St south of St Clair as none of the existing station can handle 2 different lines for them.

 

[micheal_can]

Until the OL gets built to Steeles, let alone Hwy 7 let alone Line 2, Line 1 is up the shit creek without a paddle come 2050. With the amount of development being built, in the planning stage and looking at where more density can be built within 700 meters of Yonge as well on Line 1, there is no capacity to handle the ridership within Toronto, let alone going into York Region. Even the Line 2 extension up to Finch/Steeles/Hwy 7 will only put more pressure on Line 1 south of Bloor as well the Yonge station.

Those who will be around them better start calling for a 2nd Yonge line that will have to go south on Bay St south of St Clair as none of the existing station can handle 2 different lines for them.

I'd add that the extension of Line 4 is extended to meet this line as well is needed.
Too bad it would be too costly to run a second set of tubes along Yonge to make an express line. That is the real relief that is needed.

 

[81-717]

Doesn't the projected ridership indicate that most YNSE riders wouldn't be going all the way downtown, but rather midtown or uptown (North York)?

 

[Rainforest]

Doesn't the projected ridership indicate that most YNSE riders wouldn't be going all the way downtown, but rather midtown or uptown (North York)?

Even if "only" 40% of YNSE riders continue south of Bloor, that may be enough to exceed the capacity limit. The line isn't far from the limit today, and will get more demand from the existing connections as well.

 

[warrens]

Romanticism of the age of expansion and settlement, plus attracting investors to the potential of the terra incognita. At least Canadian Pacific made it there. The Algoma Central and Hudson's Bay railway came up a little short. I guess if you included a cardinal direction ('& northwestern') it gave you a little wiggle room ('I didn't mean that far').

My favourite of these is the Toronto, Hamilton & Buffalo railway (TH&B). Famous in part because Hamilton's charming downtown train station was TH&B's headquarters and still bears their marque to this day......

One small problem, though........ maybe the eagle-eyed can figure out what it is.

 

[drum118]

Doesn't the projected ridership indicate that most YNSE riders wouldn't be going all the way downtown, but rather midtown or uptown (North York)?

Once Line 1 is extended to York Region, it will change the pattern for a lot of riders that you will have opposite flow of riders heading into York Region than today as well alone the line.

You will see 50-60% of riders going to DT area north of Finch and that will exceed existing capacity for the line south of St Clair and more so south of Bloor.

For increase in ridership numbers, you have over 3 dozen projects on Yonge St itself north of Eglinton on the books today calling for close to 15,000+ units with about another 12 within 500 meters of Yonge at about 1500 units. I can see at least another 15,000 units that can be built there. If one looks south of Eglinton, you see almost the same numbers.

If the 2nd Yonge is built, it should be a 3-4 track line to allow for express trains as well allowing to having tracks out for maintains. It needs to use Bay St south of St Clair/Eglinton.as none of the existing stations has the capacity to handle today ridership nor the ability to move from one line to another line. Connecting to the Existing Bay Station will be a challenge due to the Y connection there now and the new line station will become the deepest station in the system.

This will create a problem as to where you must build a yard for this line and a good opportunity to move to an eight cars trains set considering Line 1 should be seven cars now.

To take a step further, it can either be a Stub end at Union or continue to Queens Quay or better to the Central Island that only needs to be two tracks. The quality of service will vary based on the time of the year as well as ridership demands. It will have to be deep to get under not only the streetcar line, but the harbour water.

 

[warrens]

Doesn't the projected ridership indicate that most YNSE riders wouldn't be going all the way downtown, but rather midtown or uptown (North York)?

Yeah. People originating in Richmond Hill who are going all the way downtown are probably still going to take the GO train for increased comfort, fewer stops, and nicer view along the way. I don't know if the GO 61 bus will survive when all-day 15-minute service comes to Langstaff GO, but even that would be faster and more comfortable than Line 1 if your destination is Union.

 

[micheal_can]

Yeah. People originating in Richmond Hill who are going all the way downtown are probably still going to take the GO train for increased comfort, fewer stops, and nicer view along the way. I don't know if the GO 61 bus will survive when all-day 15-minute service comes to Langstaff GO, but even that would be faster and more comfortable than Line 1 if your destination is Union.

Depends if fare integration works. When you had 3 different fares, vs 2, that difference can add up. Fare integration, of which has been announced, should change things for the better. Time will tell whether it does.anything or not.

 

[NIV]

Until the OL gets built to Steeles, let alone Hwy 7 let alone Line 2, Line 1 is up the shit creek without a paddle come 2050. With the amount of development being built, in the planning stage and looking at where more density can be built within 700 meters of Yonge as well on Line 1, there is no capacity to handle the ridership within Toronto, let alone going into York Region. Even the Line 2 extension up to Finch/Steeles/Hwy 7 will only put more pressure on Line 1 south of Bloor as well the Yonge station.

Those who will be around them better start calling for a 2nd Yonge line that will have to go south on Bay St south of St Clair as none of the existing station can handle 2 different lines for them.

Sheppard west extension would help alleviate some of the pressure on the Yonge line. Passengers travelling to the west side of the city will have the option to transfer at Sheppard instead of Bloor.

 

[Rainforest]

Yeah. People originating in Richmond Hill who are going all the way downtown are probably still going to take the GO train for increased comfort, fewer stops, and nicer view along the way. I don't know if the GO 61 bus will survive when all-day 15-minute service comes to Langstaff GO, but even that would be faster and more comfortable than Line 1 if your destination is Union.

Are there any plans for all-day 15-min service to Langstaff GO ? For what I know, those tracks are hard to upgrade.

Even then, many riders go to stations located south of Bloor, but north of Union. In those cases, just taking Line 1 will be easier than taking GO to Union and then backtracking.