Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[nfitz]

The RT was basically kaput and everyone knew this. There was no real way to save it. And Subways take a long time to build so there was no way to get it done faster.

Sure there was. Back in 2006ish, when they did the study of rehabbing and extending the SRT to Sheppard/Markham versus replacing it with subway. Had they started the subway then, it would have already opened.

But instead the TTC voted to upgrade the existing SRT to handle new longer trains, and extend the platforms. It wasn't the LRT to subway conversion discussion that caused the issue. It was the decision to rehash the decision to upgrade the SRT that was the problem.

 

[Richard White]

The problem with that idea is that the main reason the RT is a failure is because of its alignment. It runs through the asscrack of Scarborough and goes to few places people might want to go.

Yes and No.

STC is a main draw in Scarborough along with Lawrence East station. That said, Ellesmere, Midland and McCowan should never have existed.

 

[T3G]

Yes and No.

STC is a main draw in Scarborough along with Lawrence East station. That said, Ellesmere, Midland and McCowan should never have existed.

That's why I said few, not none.

Kennedy and STC, and to a lesser extent Lawrence East, are the only stations with some kind of justification for existing. It is basically a glorified STC shuttle.

At any rate, my point is that the alignment chosen was poor, and building the subway along it (if you could even fit it, which I don't think you can) would be an even bigger waste of money than the present project is.

 

[sixrings]

Sure there was. Back in 2006ish, when they did the study of rehabbing and extending the SRT to Sheppard/Markham versus replacing it with subway. Had they started the subway then, it would have already opened.

But instead the TTC voted to upgrade the existing SRT to handle new longer trains, and extend the platforms. It wasn't the LRT to subway conversion discussion that caused the issue. It was the decision to rehash the decision to upgrade the SRT that was the problem.

Back then there wasn't a narrative of "transfer city." David Miller was our mayor and generally speaking people wanted a network. LRTs was a way to create a relatively affordable network which is why no attention went into a subway extension. Now it seems we still want a network. Just a Subway network. Subways Subways Subway.

 

[Metroscapes]

So here's a breakdown of the STC shuttle schedule (per the city report):

• SRT Shutdown: November 2023ish
• Interim priority lanes: November 2023 - ?
• Converted SRT busway: 2 years from funding - subway completion
• Subway completion: 2030 (big if)

Let's assume the funding isn't in place until the next budget cycle (March 2024). That puts SRT busway conversion, accounting for a couple hiccups, in summer 2026. It also puts the final decision a couple months after operating the interim lanes.

The bus lanes will provide 2-3 minutes of savings and make the service reliable. Are we really believing that the City and province are going to spend the extra money for what, an extra 1-2 minutes on top? I'm sure they will look at the interim lanes and say 'eh, good enough.'

Maybe the answer to that question will depend on the outcome of the mayoral election.

 

[Richard White]

Back then there wasn't a narrative of "transfer city." David Miller was our mayor and generally speaking people wanted a network. LRTs was a way to create a relatively affordable network which is why no attention went into a subway extension. Now it seems we still want a network. Just a Subway network. Subways Subways Subway.

As someone who has lived in Scarborough since 1988 trust me when I saw the Subway extension is far better of a solution than an LRT.

Kennedy Station has always been a nightmare, connecting to two different lines was never fun. Putting an LRT line up there instead of a Subway would have just kicked the problem down the road while building a subway future proofs things.

 

[sixrings]

As someone who has lived in Scarborough since 1988 trust me when I saw the Subway extension is far better of a solution than an LRT.

Kennedy Station has always been a nightmare, connecting to two different lines was never fun. Putting an LRT line up there instead of a Subway would have just kicked the problem down the road while building a subway future proofs things.

Wasnt there going to be a subway to lrt platform change. The stairs would have been eliminated.

I agree a subway future proofs things but a eglinton east lrt would have been nice. So would a sheppard east lrt. Everyone hates the sheppard east lrt because of the linear transfer but most people would have transferred to the Ontario line. Anyways this subway extension is costing us a network.

Let’s look at the positives. I always hear people on here go on and on about how great brt is and how great Ottawa does it. Now we can all experience it and first hand hate it ourselves.

 

[sixrings]

If only Rob Ford had been mayor 4 years earlier we all would have been in a better place.

 

[Metroscapes]

That's how you place a landmine in a thread.

 

[T3G]

Kennedy Station has always been a nightmare, connecting to two different lines was never fun.

Of all the arguments in favour of the Scarborough Subway, this one I have always found the most baffling.

Transfers are a part of life. Perhaps you may find them annoying; I too wish for a subway with an entrance right at my front door with a stop at my workplace; but a "nightmare"? Because you have to change platforms?

This kind of hyperbole is not a great way to get people to take your argument seriously. I transfer to the SRT at Kennedy all the time; the only nightmarish thing about it is how the station has been turned into a perpetual bathroom for birds. If you don't have full awareness of your surroundings at all times you'll brush up against God knows what.

 

[nfitz]

It looks like the busway is at risk, or at least delayed. The executive committee isn't feeling the love.

 

[sixrings]

Well maybe we can be like the downtown elite that we always envy and simply bike to the subway. Save a few bucks which I’m sure will be well spent on the next transit project.

 

[Voltz]

Of all the arguments in favour of the Scarborough Subway, this one I have always found the most baffling.

Transfers are a part of life. Perhaps you may find them annoying; I too wish for a subway with an entrance right at my front door with a stop at my workplace; but a "nightmare"? Because you have to change platforms?

This kind of hyperbole is not a great way to get people to take your argument seriously. I transfer to the SRT at Kennedy all the time; the only nightmarish thing about it is how the station has been turned into a perpetual bathroom for birds. If you don't have full awareness of your surroundings at all times you'll brush up against God knows what.

I agree it's not a nightmare transfer, it's two escalators, going down they are right next to each other. After the conversion it would have been a one level transfer. Hardly worth the ~$3 Billion cost premium and the loss of the Sheppard and Eglinton east LRT's, Not to mention the 15 year delay.

 

[sixrings]

Of all the arguments in favour of the Scarborough Subway, this one I have always found the most baffling.

Transfers are a part of life. Perhaps you may find them annoying; I too wish for a subway with an entrance right at my front door with a stop at my workplace; but a "nightmare"? Because you have to change platforms?

This kind of hyperbole is not a great way to get people to take your argument seriously. I transfer to the SRT at Kennedy all the time; the only nightmarish thing about it is how the station has been turned into a perpetual bathroom for birds. If you don't have full awareness of your surroundings at all times you'll brush up against God knows what.

This type of arguing got them a subway. It’s worked so far. Why stop now.

 

[JBR]

Yes and No.

STC is a main draw in Scarborough along with Lawrence East station. That said, Ellesmere, Midland and McCowan should never have existed.

McCowan is used now as they moved some bus routes over there (but no elevator). It only took 35+ years to figure that one out .