Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[Kyle Campbell]

My money's on #3. And I think the pieces are falling in place for it.

Would they actually do that, or would it be more likely they make a deal with TransLink to buy some of their old Mark I's. Buying brand new trains means the SRT would continue as is for the foreseeable future, which doesn't seem to be what any of the politicians want (though there's no real consensus on what the future is) . Buying Vancouver's old Mark I's which are currently being replaced by incoming Mark IIIs seems like a more likely non-committal option that allows things to limp along until at least well into the next government's term.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

It does seem Scarborough's future is now going to be buses due to sheer political paralysis

Honestly seems inevitable at this point. We’re not extending the life of the SRT to 2030 and beyond. This project is gonna wind up being a fascinating case study in decision paralysis. Hopefully voters have learned something through all this

 

[TheTigerMaster]

If everything keeps going the way it does I see 1 of 4 possibilities:

1: The Subway Extension does get built just a lot later then planned and quite a bit more expensive
2: To cut costs and time the Eglinton Crosstown is extended up to STC
3: To cut costs and save time the SRT is upgraded to MK.III trains (or what ever the new version is by then)
4: Nothing gets built and Scarborough looses its rapid transit for possibly decades

No matter what Scarborough has a lot of buses in its future, the TTC better start looking for Garage space.

I’ve been betting on #3 for the past few years.

 

[Rainforest]

I was just reminding others that the Scarbrorough subway was the result of the Liberals hiding the June 2012 report.

One more report wouldn't necessarily swing the way the City Council voted. The local councillors wanted the subway, and many other council members didn't see a reason to deny their wish.

The plan to combine Eglinton and SRT had one significant flow: overloading the section of Eglinton approaching Yonge from the east, and overloading Yonge between Eglinton and Bloor.

 

[Rainforest]

If everything keeps going the way it does I see 1 of 4 possibilities:

1: The Subway Extension does get built just a lot later then planned and quite a bit more expensive
2: To cut costs and time the Eglinton Crosstown is extended up to STC
3: To cut costs and save time the SRT is upgraded to MK.III trains (or what ever the new version is by then)
4: Nothing gets built and Scarborough looses its rapid transit for possibly decades

No matter what Scarborough has a lot of buses in its future, the TTC better start looking for Garage space.

Hopefully, #1, but the fallback would be #3 (could be Mk-III, or old Mk-I from Vancouver).

#2 is something the TTC wanted to avoid at all cost (through-routing the high frequency SLRT line with the street-median Eglinton East), and unlikely to embrace.

#4 is only possible in case of a major financial disaster (one a lot harder than the 2001 or 2008/9 troubles), that could saddle the governments with tasks much more urgent than any transit expansion.

 

[Streety McCarface]

Hopefully, #1, but the fallback would be #3 (could be Mk-III, or old Mk-I from Vancouver).

#2 is something the TTC wanted to avoid at all cost (through-routing the high frequency SLRT line with the street-median Eglinton East), and unlikely to embrace.

#4 is only possible in case of a major financial disaster (one a lot harder than the 2001 or 2008/9 troubles), that could saddle the governments with tasks much more urgent than any transit expansion.

That's true, governments will fork over large sums of money for something, too many seats at stake.

 

[syn]

Maybe you weren't paying attention to where this chat started.
It was about Metrolinx report (June 2012) - not the Schabas report.
I was just reminding others that the Scarbrorough subway was the result of the Liberals hiding the June 2012 report.
The Schabas report confirms that the Metrolinx report was hidden. It also shows that there were other options - and maybe even the Ford plan of a connected Eglinton-Scraborough, which was found to be the best of those studied, could have been improved upon with some honesty on the part of the Liberals.
I realize the some people on this thread were not around, while other may have not been paying close enough attention to notice this piece of information that the media did their best to hide because it showed the Ford plan as best. I suppose there are also some who have forgotten the facts, since this was such a long time ago.
Regardless - it never hurts to tell the truth.

The Scarborough Subway is the result of an unqualified Mayor cancelling already paid for and ready to build plans for political opportunity, feeding the citizens fear and lies.

The Scarborough Subway is the result of an unqualified Mayor deciding that a great plan would be to spend all transit dollars on one project, while leaving everything else unfunded.

 

[syn]

If everything keeps going the way it does I see 1 of 4 possibilities:

1: The Subway Extension does get built just a lot later then planned and quite a bit more expensive
2: To cut costs and time the Eglinton Crosstown is extended up to STC
3: To cut costs and save time the SRT is upgraded to MK.III trains (or what ever the new version is by then)
4: Nothing gets built and Scarborough looses its rapid transit for possibly decades

No matter what Scarborough has a lot of buses in its future, the TTC better start looking for Garage space.

#3 and #4 seem the most likely. #2 was proposed at one point, if it really does make sense Rob Ford's brother could easily make it a reality again.

For me the SSE isn't about paralysis as much as it is about keeping it politically useful.

 

[BurlOak]

If everything keeps going the way it does I see 1 of 4 possibilities:

1: The Subway Extension does get built just a lot later then planned and quite a bit more expensive
2: To cut costs and time the Eglinton Crosstown is extended up to STC
3: To cut costs and save time the SRT is upgraded to MK.III trains (or what ever the new version is by then)
4: Nothing gets built and Scarborough looses its rapid transit for possibly decades

No matter what Scarborough has a lot of buses in its future, the TTC better start looking for Garage space.

1. Most likely.
2. No. TTC hates this idea. Metrolinx knows on-street LRT for Golden Mile portion will not support it.
3. Either as a band aid solution, or in conjunction with a whole new way of thinking. The only way this could happen is if someone asked - is there a better way of achieving the same goals for less money. We are still living in the world created in 2013 by the Liberals, where it's either subway or transfer LRT. I can only hope that someone opens their eyes to something better - https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threa...arborough-subway-extension.27288/post-1289232).
4. Depending on your timeline, this is either possible or impossible. Something will be done before 2099.

 

[Hopkins123]

It does seem Scarborough's future is now going to be buses due to sheer political paralysis

They could just as well pave over the SRT tracks and run some articulated buses along its right-of-way if the sentiment is that the subway is taking too long to get built.

 

[Hopkins123]

Now we are nowhere close. You could make the case we were only about a year away however Doug Ford and his monkeys have pushed it off till 2025 at the earliest. The SRT will be shut down before we even have a single shovel in the ground.

No one can ever appease the naysayers it seems. A one-stop subway proposal is problematic, Ford forges ahead with 3 stops instead : the pitchfork and torches mob complains. DRL ought to be the #1 priority, Ford agrees and even includes components of phases 2 and 3 in his Phase One : more dissention and backlash. This is precisely why the City cannot have nice things, we obsess to death about timelines and not the end result.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

No one can ever appease the naysayers it seems. A one-stop subway proposal is problematic, Ford forges ahead with 3 stops instead : the pitchfork and torches mob complains. DRL ought to be the #1 priority, Ford agrees and even includes components of phases 2 and 3 in his Phase One : more dissention and backlash. This is precisely why the City cannot have nice things, we obsess to death about timelines and not the end result.

The naysaying is because his plans are bullshit. These are just clearly moves to appease the electorate without having to spend any $$$. The DRL, and SSE especially, haven’t been handled with any sense of urgency; it’s been a year since we’ve seen any progress on the SSE, while SRT is a ticking time bomb. But please come back in 3 years and tell me I was wrong.

 

[nfitz]

They could just as well pave over the SRT tracks and run some articulated buses along its right-of-way if the sentiment is that the subway is taking too long to get built.

Province could do this, but TTC is precluded, because of the restriction of the provincial government to no work on a parallel rapid transit corridor.

I suppose they could pave it and make it a bicycle path or something ...

 

[Kyle Campbell]

Province could do this, but TTC is precluded, because of the restriction of the provincial government to no work on a parallel rapid transit corridor.

I suppose they could pave it and make it a bicycle path or something ...

Or... Thinking of this particular government, introducing the new Scarborough expressway for self driving cars!

 

[OneCity]

It does seem Scarborough's future is now going to be buses due to sheer political paralysis

Not at all.

The serious poltical paralysis hampering this line pretty much ended once the decision was removed from toxic outside presence on City council.

The subway support is quite overwhelming from all relevant leaders and almost all Scarborough Polticians at all levels and parties.

It's a matter of fixing the design from the mess council left and moving on. There is no relevant appetite to overturn outside of the City

Although the tantrum will continue. But that's all it can be now