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Cycling infrastructure (Separated bike lanes)
- Thread starter MetroMan
- Start date
TTCdinosaur
Active Member
Buzz off. Accessibility advocates seem to think they should be able to drive everywhere. One day, you'll want to be able to drive literally into a restaurant for "equity" reasons.Sorry supporters of bike lanes, but they are a scourge for the disabled. They also are an issue for seniors. My daughter is disabled and my mom requires a wheelchair (blind/elderly). The whole Toronto Accessibility Design Guidelines appear to be optional when it comes to bike lanes.
From the city's website: "The Toronto Accessibility Design Guidelines (TADG)is a reference document available to all sectors to conduct accessibility audits and to plan developments, as the City works towards making Toronto a “barrier free” community.”
I blame progressives too - they started these "equity" wars.
just east of the creek
Active Member
Sorry. Pedestrians, cyclists, transit, and supply & services all have a higher order of utility and priority over cars. Increasingly denser cities require this for the functioning of good neighbourhoods', and it’s coming. Doug Ford is rapidly showing that he is morphing into a dinosaur, a politician devoid of ideas or an ability to tackle transformative issues important to the GTA .And his caucus appears to be similarly powerless, as the Premiers office appears to control all. This issue is one in a long string of projects announced to distract Ontario s population from issues of real concern - homelessness for one, geared for income housing for another, additional transit projects ( the waterfront, Hamilton etc), Ontarios medical system….and I could go on.Sorry supporters of bike lanes, but they are a scourge for the disabled. They also are an issue for seniors. My daughter is disabled and my mom requires a wheelchair (blind/elderly). The whole Toronto Accessibility Design Guidelines appear to be optional when it comes to bike lanes.
From the city's website: "The Toronto Accessibility Design Guidelines (TADG)
I say this as a card carrying conservative, a multi car owner, and one who has lived in downtown Toronto, the burbs and the rural GTA. It’s depressing and disheartening to think that uppermost in his mind is the car.
turbanplanner
Senior Member
I personally have two concerns that I don't think will ever be addressed.
1. What are the majority of cycling trips expected to accomplish?
I think if you're reasonably close to the core, and work there commuting is a realistic prospect. I think if either you don't live there OR your place of work is further away you've significantly cut the number of people willing to commute that far by bike. Bike use in the winter is 20% of summer volumes, and I think comfort is the #1 issue, probably even above safety.
If someone is in the suburbs, are we expecting people to commute to downtown OR are we expecting them to replace local car trips with bike trips? (ex, groceries) If there isn't anything nearby to bike to I feel like the lanes will stay empty.
2. What does success look like?
The city has refused to define a successful bike lane, in every other form of transport the key metric is passengers per hour. The closest thing I've seen is "lives saved" but we don't use that justification for anything else. Otherwise we'd cut highway speed limits etc.
UtakataNoAnnex
Senior Member
I disagree that we should blame equality on something like this. And I don't know why Mr. Hank decided to bring this wedge issue up, as he hasn't been very forthcoming on the specifics of his claims. Therefore, I can only conclude at this juncture that they where made in the anecdotal experience and so not true of everyone with sight and/or mobility issues.
That's kind of an interesting perspective, as not all conservatives think like Doug on this issue...
Prime Minister Boris Johnson Pledges £5 Billion In New Cash For Buses And Bicycle Infrastructure
Alongside the confirmation for the full route of the HS2 railway expected on February 11 the U. K.’s Department for Transport has announced new funding of £5 billion to boost bus use and bicycling.
www.forbes.com
...while dated by 4 years and 4 PM's (UK) ago, this commitment sits in stark contrast to our current Preem. So one does not have to be a downtown latte sipping liberal to conclude the importance of an infrastructure that moves way from the dependency on the car.
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just east of the creek
Active Member
Sorry. In a bit of a rush, pulling on goalie equipment for some of our favorite sport, but quickly… and yes, I did come by an ICE powered vehicle. I have not mastered towing or throwing my equipment on my 10 spd.
1. I do not think it is all about commuting, although that’s a large part of it. If we are talking neighbourhoods and connected neighbourhoods, then we are speaking of a realm of destinations and reasons for biking. And not forgetting more connectivity amongst transit options as well, transit options with priority over cars - at intersections and separated from traffic. Biking does not stand alone as I see it, but is part of the options available depending on destination. And I do not discount the car, just its place in the hierarchy and priority sequence.
2. I think your second point is very valid. I spend a lot of time in Montreal in all seasons and bike use in the winter does drop, but it does not disappear. How many truly snowy days are there in Toronto.? And again, I think the success of bike lanes is also part of the success of neighborhoods, so pedestrians, street scapes, transit etc - not the arterial highways that many of our arteries are - such as the race to get to the bottom of University Ave.
This is more than just about bikes. I think we are speaking of a cultural shift as well underlying all. Perhaps Jane Jacob’s started it, David Crombie excited it, and the Urbanization of Toronto continued, and then exploded with condominium and shifts in family makeup, cultural make up etc.
Is this a cookie cutter plan to apply to all. I don’t think so, but I think municipalities, not Doug Ford, should be making those decisions. If Doug wants to be mayor, he should run.
Hockey calls. Cheers!
Cambry Ardship
Active Member
Last few trips for me.
1. Getting home from work on Bikeshare.
2. Recreational ride on nearby bike trails.
3. Recreation ride on nearby bike trails.
4. Going to a bank.
5. Going to a gym.
6. Picking up bread from a bakery.
Largely, for me, having expanded local bike lanes is about enabling more trips to nearby destinations on busier streets that aren't currently safe or comfortable to bike on. It means I'm able to do more shopping, groceries, and eating out in a wider radius. Commuting to work is a secondary concern in my situation.
Further away from home, it means being able to use transit + bikeshare more easily to visit friends and do errands in a wider radius.
1. Getting home from work on Bikeshare.
2. Recreational ride on nearby bike trails.
3. Recreation ride on nearby bike trails.
4. Going to a bank.
5. Going to a gym.
6. Picking up bread from a bakery.
Largely, for me, having expanded local bike lanes is about enabling more trips to nearby destinations on busier streets that aren't currently safe or comfortable to bike on. It means I'm able to do more shopping, groceries, and eating out in a wider radius. Commuting to work is a secondary concern in my situation.
Further away from home, it means being able to use transit + bikeshare more easily to visit friends and do errands in a wider radius.
TheGrimSweeper
New Member
I can echo this as someone who does most of his trips & errands via Bike.
My usage of Bike Lanes.
1.) Commuting downtown to work
2.) Dropping one kid off at school and one at daycare. (Towing them in a trailer).
3.) Going to parks, farmers market or the beach
4.) Any type of errands nearby (groceries, coffee shops, bakeries)
5.) Going to the gym, doctor, dentist.
6.) Meeting friends at a bar or restaurants.
I generally do this year round too, as long as roads are clear. I use a pedal assist e-bike as I find it vastly improves the range and utility of what you are able to do.
evandyk
Senior Member
I use my car usually less than once a week. I try to bike most of the time in good weather, and transit at other times. If the Bloor bike lanes are removed, I'd still mostly bike when it's just me (and I'd take a full lane, since it's not safe for cars to pass a cyclist in the same lane generally), but I would probably drive much more often if I'm taking my son. I'd definitely drive more times per week without those lanes.
Towered
Superstar
For years I biked from central Etobicoke to downtown 5 days a week, so about 30 k/m per day. It can certainly be done, and I was very happy that the cycle tracks along Bloor finally made the journey safe. Do I not deserve that?
Midtown Hank
Active Member
Buzz off, yourself. This "advocate" doesn't think they should be able to drive everywhere, but for some, driving isn't an option - it's a necessity. As opposed to dismissing their interests, I think they should be considered. For the record, as my post seems to have created a bit of a sh*tstorm, I am not suggesting the elimination of bike lanes. I am simply pointing out that they are the scourge of the disabled. You can argue all you want, but it is a fact of life. When not driving my daughter or mom, I am a regular user of the TTC and yes - a bike.
Some have enquired as to why bike lanes are not welcome by disabled? Bike lanes prohibit one from getting close to the sidewalk to get the passenger out and into a wheelchair. The alternative is finding parking elsewhere and pushing the wheelchair back to the location one needs to get to. Of course it doable - as that is exactly what I do, but it's not the same for people who do not have disabilities.
dimonpc
New Member
I bike on Bloor all the time and sometimes I feel like there're more cyclists than cars. This video is not the best example, this is off peak hours. But still:
afransen
Senior Member
The problem is lack of funding for appropriate permanent cycling facilities. Elevated cycle tracks with slight roll curbs to the sidewalk would be a lot more accessible.
evandyk
Senior Member
I think in general, disability advocates are in favour of bike lanes as they add another mobility option that people with disabilities can use. That said, there are obviously concerns about the design of some specific ones in Toronto.
FC_
New Member
There's a lot of variation in bike lane designs across the city, with some looking more permanent than others. My understanding is that when we see concrete barriers similar to those used in parking lots, combined with flexible posts, they are "temporary" and meant to be replaced with better designs during future road upgrades for utilities and other improvements. University Avenue on the west side and College Street are good examples of these upgrades. Would designs, like the Sherbourne bike lanes, meet better accessibility standards? Even if they do, I would think cyclists would prefer stronger barriers to prevent cars from entering the bike lanes.