Cycling infrastructure (Separated bike lanes)

[turbanplanner]

These are games that he will more than happily play and win as red meat for his base, and because they're popular outside of downtown. He thrives on this kind of conflict, and probably makes him more popular. The only solution here is an electoral defeat of Ford and Fordism. The first one will be difficult enough, and probably require a unified liberal / ndp. The second is tougher and will require dealing with the causes of the anger amongst voters, and something nobody is seriously tackling.

Look at the Liberals pick? I don't believe in the "downtown elites" Narrative but Crombie is basically the spitting image of that.

How does everyone think the Fords and all the other incredibly scummy councilors stay in power? They know the people who elected them don't think of 20 year plans, due process, or the intricacies of how the government machine works. They vote for the guy who suddenly makes the potholes disappear or makes the garbage they forgot to leave out get picked up (at great expense to the city) He pretends to be a man of the people and a lot of the province is eating it up.

The other politicians give the impression to voters they're in an ivory tower disconnected from the struggles of the average person, though a man who never worked a day in his life some how tricked people into thinking otherwise about him!

 

[evandyk]

If people think of Bonnie Crombie as downtown elite, that's no good for her, since the downtown elite think of her as a reddish Hazel McCallion.

 

[MisterF]

How the cheapest form of transportation ever got associated with elitism of all things is one of those things that will break your brain if you try to make it make sense.

 

[evandyk]

Yup. All the stats show that the richer you are, the more likely you are to drive to work and everywhere else, and to own multiple cars per household. The poorer you are, the more likely you are to bike and take transit. And yet every discussion of tolls, bike lanes, congestion charges, etc. etc. are always "How are all the poor and working class driving folks going to live with this?"

And yes, we should have better transit and bike lanes so that the poor and working class people using those for transportation have options to get around. Subsidizing driving doesn't do that.

 

[Admiral Beez]

If those bike lanes come out, the city should just replace them with sidewalks to spite the province.

Dual use sidewalks.

 

[robmausser]

If those bike lanes come out, the city should just replace them with sidewalks to spite the province.

I believe the law that prohibits bikes on sidewalks is a municipal one too. Could change the rules so that bikes are allowed on special sidewalks that specifically allow for it. (aka the ones being installed)

 

[bearcat]

I believe the law that prohibits bikes on sidewalks is a municipal one too. Could change the rules so that bikes are allowed on special sidewalks that specifically allow for it. (aka the ones being installed)

Again, Doug can just pass another bill to disallow that. Nothing to stop him. Or even better, wait until these are installed and then force the city to remove them.

 

[afransen]

I believe the law that prohibits bikes on sidewalks is a municipal one too. Could change the rules so that bikes are allowed on special sidewalks that specifically allow for it. (aka the ones being installed)

I think if they allowed bikes on sidewalks you couldn't remove car lanes to expand them (as in multi use paths). You can remove car lanes for other purposes, as long as bikes aren't permitted (which goes to show how capricious the rule is).

 

[afransen]

Dual use sidewalks.

The law specifically prohibits multi use paths as well.

 

[Admiral Beez]

One long-term benefit we may see with the total tear out of our bike lanes is a total rethink of bike infrastructure by the mid to late 2030s. Toronto's experience with bike lanes is such a hodgepodge mess of sometimes just paint, sometimes bollards, or curbs or metal railings, sometimes with separations ending before intersections, sometimes with bike-only traffic signals, sometimes not, with bike lanes often in the gutter. Clearly were we learning on the go. For example, we never seem to be able to combine streetcar ROWs and curb separated bike lanes, instead we put in the ROWs without any thought to bikes whatsoever - demonstrating that the different branches of government have an issue working together.

But the demand for bicycle infrastructure is not going away, and by the mid 2030s Torontonians (by then closing on 4 million of us) will likely be demanding safe and efficient cycle options. My hope is that by then the MTO has clear guidelines or regs and that we can apply the best bike infrastructure from across the globe, rather than trying to reinvent the wheel or learn on the go. But we must first endure a decade of darkness.

 

[bearcat]

One long-term benefit we may see with the total tear out of our bike lanes is a total rethink of bike infrastructure by the mid to late 2030s. Toronto's experience with bike lanes is such a hodgepodge mess of sometimes just paint, sometimes bollards, or curbs or metal railings, sometimes with separations ending before intersections, sometimes with bike-only traffic signals, sometimes not, with bike lanes often in the gutter. Clearly were we learning on the go. For example, we never seem to be able to combine streetcar ROWs and curb separated bike lanes, instead we put in the ROWs without any thought to bikes whatsoever - demonstrating that the different branches of government have an issue working together.

But the demand for bicycle infrastructure is not going away, and by the mid 2030s Torontonians (by then closing on 4 million of us) will likely be demanding safe and efficient cycle options. My hope is that by then the MTO has clear guidelines or regs and that we can apply the best bike infrastructure from across the globe, rather than trying to reinvent the wheel or learn on the go. But we must first endure a decade of darkness.

It all comes down to money. If the city only built the perfect bike lanes that you envision we would not have most of the network we have now as the city simply could not afford it. Compromises had to be made to expand the bike lane network with less than ideal infrastructure to save money to avoid full road reconstruction and to provide some level of protection for cyclists sooner, rather that 10 years down the line. It is an incremental approach, built around already existing infrastructure that has to be accommodated, that's why it seems like a mess.

Booth the Finch and Crosstown LRT's have bike lanes by the way, maybe not perfect curb separated ones you desire, but they do. Spadina could not possibly have one without a car lane removed, same with St. Clair. Something that will no longer be allowed by default. The Queensway ROW has bike lanes as well, again not curb separated, but the wouldn't say there was "no thought to bikes whatsoever". The QQ ROW has the MGT.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Booth the Finch and Crosstown LRT's have bike lanes by the way....

No, not LRTs. Streetcar ROWs. With one small exception south of High Park, and excluding the multiuse path on Queen's Quay, I don't see a single instance of where streetcar ROWs and separated bike lines run together. St. Clair desperately needs this, as when I drive along this route I see cyclists dangerously squeezed by the ROW and car traffic. Clearly when we were planning and designing for street ROWs on St. Clair, Spadina, etc. we gave no thought to bike use. And look at King Street, I've seen cyclists trying to squeeze between streetcars and planters the city puts in the gutter lane.

 

[bearcat]

No, not LRTs. Streetcar ROWs. With one small exception south of High Park, and excluding the multiuse path on Queen's Quay, I don't see a single instance of where streetcar ROWs and separated bike lines run together. St. Clair desperately needs this, as when I drive along this route I see cyclists dangerously squeezed by the ROW and car traffic. Clearly when we were planning and designing for street ROWs on St. Clair, Spadina, etc. we gave no thought to bike use. And look at King Street, I've seen cyclists trying to squeeze between streetcars and planters the city puts in the gutter lane.

King Street is a temporary design until there is money and a plan to redo the street properly in my understanding. Spadina was opened in 1997 and St. Clair in 2010. I don't think either say anything about the state of current bike infrastructure planning by the city, or how they would be designed today. If you look at the plans for the Broadview extension that includes I believe curb separated bike lanes.

I am sure the city has a lot to learn. However what will the city learn from having in my opinion very well designed brand new bike lane on University torn out?

 

[MisterF]

No, not LRTs. Streetcar ROWs. With one small exception south of High Park, and excluding the multiuse path on Queen's Quay, I don't see a single instance of where streetcar ROWs and separated bike lines run together. St. Clair desperately needs this, as when I drive along this route I see cyclists dangerously squeezed by the ROW and car traffic. Clearly when we were planning and designing for street ROWs on St. Clair, Spadina, etc. we gave no thought to bike use. And look at King Street, I've seen cyclists trying to squeeze between streetcars and planters the city puts in the gutter lane.

Dundas too, although it's only small sections that are currently separated.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Dundas too, although it's only small sections that are currently separated.

Where is the ROW on Dundas?