Cycling infrastructure (Separated bike lanes)

[Danielinthecity]

More bike lanes!

That was an interesting read. I think that they really need bike lanes downtown.

More bike lanes everywhere! ...on many more roads...a huge integrated network spreadout outward to both the inner and outer suburbs...tied in with transit AND our park system...lets challenge Amsterdam and become the bike lane capital of the world! Let's set up a global engineering/design competition to build glass heated enclosures for the winter...let's be the first in the world to develop this technology and sell it worldwide...lets make everyone else jealous of our amazing feat...lets be featured in articles all around the world for this...lets increase tourism b/c of it...cause tourists want to come here to use our bike system...lets get family's involved...lets incorporate mini-stores/rest spots/bathrooms/art along the routes...lets be a model for the world of what can be done...

...the possibilities are really endless if we really really remove our 'ya but' thinking and give in to our imagination and resourcefullness...


C'mon, folks...any more 'crazy' ideas out there...maybe after were done we can send them to spacing or The Star or anybody willing to put our ideas out there...

 

[reaperexpress]

That's not so. Minnan-Wong did an end run around that particular resolution, and the Jarvis lanes will come out while the Sherbourne plan is still going through the motions. Jonathan Goldsbie made that point in the Post yesterday

http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/0...-panel-sound-and-fury-over-jarvis-bike-lanes/

The political posturing is about separated bike lanes, not killing Jarvis, I think.

One thing that bothers me in that article is that Gurney says:

Bike lanes on Jarvis are going to get moved. Slightly. And they’ll be separated from traffic when they get to their new home on Sherbourne.

This is totally false, and I'm surprised no one commented on this. First of all, there are currently bike lanes on both Jarvis and Sherbourne. Removing the ones on Jarvis is not "moving them" to Sherbourne, it's removing them entirely. As well, Sherbourne is not just a "slight" distance from Jarvis, they're about 500m apart. People are often saying that cyclists shouldn't use Jarvis because Sherbourne is better anyway, but I don't think they would see it the same way if we proposed removing cars from King and Queen because Richmond and Adelaide are better for them anyway.

 

[Danielinthecity]

One thing that bothers me in that article is that Gurney says:


This is totally false, and I'm surprised no one commented on this. First of all, there are currently bike lanes on both Jarvis and Sherbourne. Removing the ones on Jarvis is not "moving them" to Sherbourne, it's removing them entirely. As well, Sherbourne is not just a "slight" distance from Jarvis, they're about 500m apart. People are often saying that cyclists shouldn't use Jarvis because Sherbourne is better anyway, but I don't think they would see it the same way if we proposed removing cars from King and Queen because Richmond and Adelaide are better for them anyway.

Finally...someone said this!

 

[k10ery]

One thing that bothers me in that article is that Gurney says:

Bike lanes on Jarvis are going to get moved. Slightly. And they’ll be separated from traffic when they get to their new home on Sherbourne.

This is totally false, and I'm surprised no one commented on this.

If nobody commented on that, maybe it is because Matt Gurney is completely unteachable. He is not exactly the brightest light in Toronto media.

 

[js97]

I for one am against separated bike lanes... people need to learn to drive with cyclists... it's really the only way we'll have more freedom as cyclists. If you take a look at some of the most populated cities, cyclists share the road/sidewalk with pedestrians and cars.. Beijing pre-olympics, tokyo, parks of rome....

I rather we have cyclist chevrons across every street in the city then be relegated to 2 curb separated bike lanes. It's very symbolic and not very pragmatic

 

[Fred.S]

I for one am against separated bike lanes... people need to learn to drive with cyclists... it's really the only way we'll have more freedom as cyclists. If you take a look at some of the most populated cities, cyclists share the road/sidewalk with pedestrians and cars.. Beijing pre-olympics, tokyo, parks of rome....

I rather we have cyclist chevrons across every street in the city then be relegated to 2 curb separated bike lanes. It's very symbolic and not very pragmatic

I disagree. The main problem I find is that cyclists are expected to be grouped in with motorized vehicles (bike lanes) or pedestrians (multi-use trails) of which they are neither. You look at places like the Netherlands or Denmark, and they have the right idea. Cars get their 2 or 4-lane road, cyclists get a totally separate path designed for their speeds and abilities, and pedestrians have a sidewalk (even transit much of the time has it's own section or roads as well, or they just don't allow cars). Their road designs are far superior to ours, even for cars.

While the sharrows may be symbolic, they in reality don't really change anything for cyclists. They're good for quick connectors at intersections or at gaps in the bike lanes where they can't be fit in for like a block, but other then that, I think it's just a waste of paint.

Like you though, I am iffy on separated bike lanes downtown, or more specifically how they might be implemented. Separated lanes must be at least 2 metres wide to allow bikes to pass each other and keep a comfortable distance from whatever is separating the lane (curb, fence, bollards etc), and on a street like Sherbourne, that would probably get rid of parking on both sides of the street. But, I'm reserving a lot of judgement until I actually see the proposed designs. Ironically, I think Jarvis would have been a perfect street to showcase separated 2m bike lanes from Bloor to Queen. University and Bloor would also be excellent candidates downtown for separated lanes.

 

[jmacmillan]

Separated bike lanes are not a panacea. In fact, I'm skeptical we'll see them in Toronto - too easy to scrap the entire bike network in the name of cost cutting. Ford, for all his deficiencies is at least consistent in favouring motor vehicles over public transit and bicycles. I live on Jarvis and cycle it every day. 889 others agree too! I would not go out of my way - repeat out of my way, to cycle on Sherbourne. People who drive need to learn to share the roads.. and BTW, Jarvis is a street, not a highway. The downtown is becoming increasingly residential and crowded. Unless you provide safe alternatives, those who drive will face ever increasing congestion. Removing bike lanes is short-sighted.

 

[FreznoBob]

City agenda is not what built the city in the first place, why so myopic?

People, those of you who support downtown agendas or think the
public should spend money on arts and culture, please take one moment
and consider history. Every great civilization of the past has fallen
from within due to certain forms of overspending on cities, their
culture and buildings therein. Every great civilization that has spanned
a continent has failed due to over-taxation of the working class and
farmers. Don’t take my word for it read some global history, I would
recommend for starters, Chris Harman, A peoples history of the world. I
know it’s nice to have opera houses, bike lanes and arts endowments but
the truth is that none of that keeps us going economically, what does
keep us going is cheap and abundant food and plenty of gainful
employment. Thanks Rob Ford for getting started with this work, I would
invite you to read the book as well, if we don’t know our history we
will most certainly repeat it, lets try to repeat the good parts only.

 

[vic]

People, those of you who support downtown agendas or think the
public should spend money on arts and culture, please take one moment
and consider history. Every great civilization of the past has fallen
from within due to certain forms of overspending on cities, their
culture and buildings therein. Every great civilization that has spanned
a continent has failed due to over-taxation of the working class and
farmers. Don’t take my word for it read some global history, I would
recommend for starters, Chris Harman, A peoples history of the world. I
know it’s nice to have opera houses, bike lanes and arts endowments but
the truth is that none of that keeps us going economically, what does
keep us going is cheap and abundant food and plenty of gainful
employment. Thanks Rob Ford for getting started with this work, I would
invite you to read the book as well, if we don’t know our history we
will most certainly repeat it, lets try to repeat the good parts only.

Hmm.... A first-time copy'n'paste comment. Interesting. Got anything original?
http://www.google.ca/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q="those+of+you+who+support+downtown+agendas"

 

[Hipster Duck]

People, those of you who support downtown agendas or think the
public should spend money on arts and culture, please take one moment
and consider history. Every great civilization of the past has fallen
from within due to certain forms of overspending on cities, their
culture and buildings therein. Every great civilization that has spanned
a continent has failed due to over-taxation of the working class and
farmers. Don’t take my word for it read some global history, I would
recommend for starters, Chris Harman, A peoples history of the world. I
know it’s nice to have opera houses, bike lanes and arts endowments but
the truth is that none of that keeps us going economically, what does
keep us going is cheap and abundant food and plenty of gainful
employment. Thanks Rob Ford for getting started with this work, I would
invite you to read the book as well, if we don’t know our history we
will most certainly repeat it, lets try to repeat the good parts only.

Which civilizations collapsed due to spending money on their cities? And how is Rob Ford going to feed the masses with cheap and abundant food (or jobs)? And why am I even wasting my time on you?

 

[leopetr]

Every great civilization of the past has fallen
from within due to certain forms of overspending on cities, their
culture and buildings therein.

LOLWUT? You sound like a teenager who's read one book and found religion. Please read more books. Just because a theory is neat doesn't mean it's true.

"Why did the Austrian Empire fall? Mozart!"

Oy.

Every great civilization that has spanned
a continent has failed due to over-taxation of the working class and
farmers.

A civilization IS its cities.

Civitas - city state
Civis - citizen
Civilization - the art of living in cities

Canadian civilization is the arts scene of downtown Toronto, Montreal, Calgarry, and Vancouver by the very definition of the word.

 

[grey]

People, those of you who support downtown agendas or think the
public should spend money on arts and culture, please take one moment
and consider history. Every great civilization of the past has fallen
from within due to certain forms of overspending on cities, their
culture and buildings therein. Every great civilization that has spanned
a continent has failed due to over-taxation of the working class and
farmers. Don’t take my word for it read some global history, I would
recommend for starters, Chris Harman, A peoples history of the world. I
know it’s nice to have opera houses, bike lanes and arts endowments but
the truth is that none of that keeps us going economically, what does
keep us going is cheap and abundant food and plenty of gainful
employment. Thanks Rob Ford for getting started with this work, I would
invite you to read the book as well, if we don’t know our history we
will most certainly repeat it, lets try to repeat the good parts only.

I'm not so sure that Chris Harman, a very prominent socialist, would agree with your interpretation of his writing.

 

[junctionist]

There's a valid point in that comment. It is possible for a city to focus too much on civic improvements and not enough on its economy. Jane Jacobs talks about that scenario in The Economy of Cities. Yet the bitter cynicism towards such spending in that comment is flawed because cities can achieve civic projects and culture with a healthy economy which is adding new work and growing in exports and imports. Economic growth and civic improvement hand in hand and neither should be neglected in a great city. Cultural investment isn't a charity case either; it can result in a lot of economic activity. It's hard to understand such cynicism on cultural spending when creative sectors have resulted in so much economic growth as other industries like manufacturing have dried up in Toronto. When people in Toronto make ads, design clothes, and make films and music to exportable international standards rather than importing those things from centres like New York, LA, or Paris, the economy grows. Amidst that growth, to have production that everyone can enjoy, as we do on Nuit Blanche for instance, is warranted. The city should be an enjoyable place to be, not one that leaves people desperate for weekends in cottages or summers in foreign cities. We're not even close to overspending in these areas.

 

[TrickyRicky]

Here's the thing, every year in the inner city there will be more and more traffic and more and more bikes on the roads. Separated bike lanes won't change things or make the city safer.

I say bring on the traffic and bring on the bikes!

 

[k10ery]

Cultural investment isn't a charity case either; it can result in a lot of economic activity. It's hard to understand such cynicism on cultural spending when creative sectors have resulted in so much economic growth as other industries like manufacturing have dried up in Toronto. When people in Toronto make ads, design clothes, and make films and music to exportable international standards rather than importing those things from centres like New York, LA, or Paris, the economy grows. Amidst that growth, to have production that everyone can enjoy, as we do on Nuit Blanche for instance, is warranted. The city should be an enjoyable place to be, not one that leaves people desperate for weekends in cottages or summers in foreign cities. We're not even close to overspending in these areas.

I have to disagree there. Government subsidies for high Culture are clearly just welfare for the upper middle classes. And, these days, a way to get Richard Florida to shut up, probably. They are pretty hard to justify, but at least they are a very small part of government spending in North America.

I say this as a guy who got a $10 ticket to listen to a top international opera singer last night at Koerner Hall. (By the way, the hall was far from sold out. I bet there were plenty of rush tickets left. Check it out!)