Cycling infrastructure (Separated bike lanes)

[ADRM]

I don't go to Ford Fest, and I'm not a city council. I just follow the media, and again, I haven't seen any significant opposition to the bike lanes from groups of voters.

There's a difference between admitting that you haven't seen evidence of something and claiming it mustn't exist because you haven't seen it.

But, again, I do sincerely hope you're right.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I don't go to Ford Fest, and I'm not a city council. I just follow the media, and again, I haven't seen any significant opposition to the bike lanes from groups of voters.

I'll just say this again: John Tory and his council allies can't win over more than a tiny handful of voters by removing the bike lanes, and they can lose tens of thousands of votes if they do vote for that. The number of councillors voting to remove them is going to be in the single digits.

However, those handful can sometimes be very, very LOUD!! Sometimes, drowning out the calm voices of reason.

 

[amnesiajune]

However, those handful can sometimes be very, very LOUD!! Sometimes, drowning out the calm voices of reason.

They don't seem to be though. Look how loud the complaints are around the Woodbine bike lanes. Compared to that, the people opposed to bike lanes on Bloor are practically invisible, and their complaints are ridiculous. At least the people on Woodbine have a valid complaint about more through traffic driving on side streets.

 

[ShonTron]

They don't seem to be though. Look how loud the complaints are around the Woodbine bike lanes. Compared to that, the people opposed to bike lanes on Bloor are practically invisible, and their complaints are ridiculous. At least the people on Woodbine have a valid complaint about more through traffic driving on side streets.

A lot of that is amplified by Warren Kinsella, whose spouse is likely going to run in Ward 32.

 

[mdrejhon]

A bike lane got removed yesterday in Toronto.

(Credit: Google Maps, annotated by @EyesOnToronto on twitter)

Even 311 agrees it's weird.

Possibly some decision mistake unless they were planning to re-add the streetcar island -- which they are not.



The is a change that both big-time drivers and big-time cyclists scratch their head over. But even the hard-core drive-only crowd (the ones that think bike activists are annoying) this would even be a head-scratcher too, turning useful road surface into useless road surface and forcing bikes to share lanes.

I'm interested to hear the rationale of this particular weird bike lane removal. Unforseen safety problem, or planned rebuild of streetcar island? A demand by TTC (buffer zone for crashes) or Canada Post (space to stop)? A building that asked for curbside stopping to become permitted for essential reasons (Disabilities, etc) and then this became an unintended consequence? Construction workers accidentally or intentionally following an outdated painting blueprint from the streetcar-island era? Etc. Something caused a regression. But what?

Twitter thread of bike lane removal : https://twitter.com/eyesontoronto/status/913784422926880768

 

[amnesiajune]

Maybe they are adding in a new, longer streetcar island that can accommodate the new streetcars? The old ones were only long enough for ALRVs. That would also explain why the islands at Spadina and one of the two at Bathurst were left in place and upgraded with new shelters - those ones are more than 30 meters long.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Berlin is a city of 3,670,622 people (density 4,100/km2). Compared with Toronto, a city of 2,731,571 people (density 4,149.5/km2).

Yet, from this link, Berlin has a much better bicycle path and routes than Toronto.

 

[ShonTron]

Maybe they are adding in a new, longer streetcar island that can accommodate the new streetcars? The old ones were only long enough for ALRVs.

No. The streetcar islands were removed because they weren't wide enough for the accessibility ramps. Only the modern ROW streetcar platforms on Spadina (and later, Queen's Quay and St. Clair) were wide enough - otherwise they were rebuilt (like at King and Bathurst) or removed (such as at Bay and College).

There are no plans for a new streetcar island at College and Bay.

 

[amnesiajune]

Berlin is a city of 3,670,622 people (density 4,100/km2). Compared with Toronto, a city of 2,731,571 people (density 4,149.5/km2).

Berlin doesn't have hills all over the city outside of downtown that make it impossible to bike beyond your neighbourhood without showing up dripping in sweat. Berlin also has $1.83/liter gas.

Anyways, they do have a lot of density throughout the city. The vast majority of Toronto is either vey high density or very low density. Berlin has moderate density throughout the city. It's similar to places like Brooklyn/Queens and Montreal. For some comparison, the area North York Centre alone has more buildings over 100 meters than all of Berlin.

 

[Fred.S]

I'm interested to hear the rationale of this particular weird bike lane removal. Unforseen safety problem, or planned rebuild of streetcar island? A demand by TTC (buffer zone for crashes) or Canada Post (space to stop)? A building that asked for curbside stopping to become permitted for essential reasons (Disabilities, etc) and then this became an unintended consequence? Construction workers accidentally or intentionally following an outdated painting blueprint from the streetcar-island era? Etc. Something caused a regression. But what?

That's definitely a strange marking. I'm guessing cars were blocking the right turn for streetcars, so they wanted to move them towards the curb, like they would've been when the island was there. It would also give exiting passengers some more leeway in case a car passes the open streetcar doors. I don't see those as good enough reasons to take the lane out, since they don't do that anywhere else, and that's not a regular right turn spot for streetcars. I'm curious now...

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

Looks more like ensuring TTC streetcar passenger safety as they exit and enter streetcar with on road painted car buffer zone similar to previous streetcar island.

But also buffer from cyclist, too many cyclist are likely cycling through here when streetcar stop for passengers. Why? Many eastbound College Street cyclist do right turn here to southbound Bay bike lanes,... regardless of traffic signal if they see gap in pedestrian crossing they'll complete their right turn,... this in turn help ensure there is minimal queue of cyclist blocking bike lane on red light at intersection, so cyclist can easily go through pass TTC streetcar passengers entering and exiting streetcar. With new bike chevron road markings, cyclist are *supposed* to queue behind stopped cars,... which are *more likely* to stop for TTC streetcar passengers,.... now with vehicles in front of bikes and less width to squeeze through, it's physically more difficult to cycle through (vehicles are acting as blockers, blocking cyclist and protecting TTC streetcar passengers and pedestrians),.... this create safer environment for TTC streetcar passengers entering/exiting streetcars and also for pedestrians at the intersection.

 

[TransitBart]

This explanation makes sense. I almost got taken out by a cyclist when I exited from a streetcar on Gerrard at a mid-block stop two summers back. I still remember he told me to "watch where I was going". I had bags and I looked down to change my grip on a heavy one. It would have been a good collision.

Cars stop for streetcars. Cyclists - actually that I see - mostly don't.

 

[innsertnamehere]

My experience is that the majority of cyclists will stop if they see it - but it can be hard sometimes from my experience to notice the streetcar stopping. When you are biking you are constantly looking for potential collision points - especially when approaching an intersection, you are watching for timing of the light, turning cars, etc. I've certainly blown through open doors before accidentally, though I always stop if I see the doors opening. There are of course always the small percentage of "a-hole" cyclists - just like drivers or any other group - that don't give a shite.

 

[DB9]

Berlin is a city of 3,670,622 people (density 4,100/km2). Compared with Toronto, a city of 2,731,571 people (density 4,149.5/km2).

Yet, from this link, Berlin has a much better bicycle path and routes than Toronto.

I was in Berlin just last week, and Berlin is a million light years ahead of Toronto when it comes to any form of transit. No matter if it's public transit (absolutely amazing UBahn and SBahn that runs 24/7 on weekends.. puts the TTC & MTA to shame), cycling or even driving, it's way less stressful to get around Berlin than Tdot, even in the post-soviet east side. The German obsession with efficient mobility really puts to shame Toronto's indifference of its transit network.

The cycling lines ares on the most part separated from traffic and well-designed, way better than what's planned or put in place in Toronto. I biked from Charlottenburg in the west, through Schoneberg, Mitte, Alexanderplatz, Kreuzberg, and Nukolln, and it was a breeze on two wheels, and the perfect way to experience such an amazing and exciting metropolis.

 

[DB9]

Berlin doesn't have hills all over the city outside of downtown that make it impossible to bike beyond your neighbourhood without showing up dripping in sweat.

We have awful bike connectivity, even between the neighbourhoods that are relatively flat. For example, biking from Bloor/Dundas to the beaches is still a life harrowing experience. There's no excuse for this poor network.

Berlin also has $1.83/liter gas.

I don't think gas prices are as big an issue as you make it out to be. The biggest issue for motorists in Berlin tends to be parking.

A lot of Berliners drive diesel cars, which is often cheaper than gas by a considerable margin. Berliners also drive much smaller cars that have manual shift - these cars are much more fuel efficient than the average car in Toronto.

Gas in Berlin (like Europe) is high performance and starts at Octane 95+. That's even better than our top-line 94 gas. I rented the same car I drive in Toronto to cruise the autobahns in Germany, and it's amazing how much more performance and fuel efficiency I got out of the car.

Their premium gas is 100+ (I've seen 105).