Admiral Beez
Superstar
If Red Path ever left Toronto could cruise ships (up to a certain size and draught) use their berth as a new terminal?
|
|
|
Cruise Ship Terminal
- Thread starter rdaner
- Start date
afransen
Senior Member
I doubt there would be any challenge fitting Laker cruise ships there as Red Path can take Lakers, and cruise ships can't be any larger and fit in the St Lawrence Seaway.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Good. It would make for a better cruise ship terminal, provided spaces tour buses could be had.
rdaner
Senior Member
Howdy: An example of what other Ontario cities are planning for cruise ship terminals. Kingston! First step is the reduction of the no build zone around the asylum. Now there is talk of using the wharf for embarkation.
I feel that this is relevant because Toronto is becoming the biggest cruise ship hub in the Great Lakes and I am sure that there are discussions happening. More soon.
I feel that this is relevant because Toronto is becoming the biggest cruise ship hub in the Great Lakes and I am sure that there are discussions happening. More soon.
jje1000
Senior Member
I am sure that the former asylum would make for a good backdrop and even destination in the future, though it’s a shame it’s so far from the actual Kingston downtown core.
crs1026
Superstar
I’m curious what the spec for a Toronto cruise terminal would be. If Toronto is intended to be merely a day stop, as Kingston is, then all that’s needed is a pier, a basic gate, and maybe bunkering. With adequate space for buses (as cruises imply day outings and not just pedestrian egress).
But if Toronto is intended to be a terminal point for cruises, a lot more is needed in terms of long term parking, baggage handling, immigration, material handling, access to maintenance and repair resources, waste removal and watering. Possibly short or long term mooring and layup. Would all that fit at Redpath? Or even near Portlands?
- Paul
But if Toronto is intended to be a terminal point for cruises, a lot more is needed in terms of long term parking, baggage handling, immigration, material handling, access to maintenance and repair resources, waste removal and watering. Possibly short or long term mooring and layup. Would all that fit at Redpath? Or even near Portlands?
- Paul
rdaner
Senior Member
Or the Island Airport?! 
nfitz
Superstar
Is this intended to be for the larger ships that you get in Toronto, or another Thousand Islands-like day-trip line.
As jje1000 points out, I'd think not being downtown would be an issue. Wouldn't one of the wharfs downtown be more suitable? Or even the one south of the Water Treatment plan on King Street - which at least is on the edge of the linear lakefront park that's at the edge of walkability to downtown.
Isn't the current Toronto cruise ship terminal sufficient? There's certainly a ton of parking and space.
lenaitch
Senior Member
Source of data for that? I can't find anything.
Some of the Great Lake cruise ships are upwards of 650+ feet in length and port area at downtown Kinsgton is fairly constrained. Besides, the city would have to buy up and tear down a lot of something somebody already owns.
Are you part of the crowd who want to kick what remains of industry out of the Port of Toronto because it doesn't 'fit the vision'?
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Sigh, no. Can you identify anyone specific in your supposed crowd?
Last edited:
rdaner
Senior Member
So this is a recap of the 2023 cruise season on the Great Lakes. Will search for more stats but the big thing to remember is that most cruises heading west start in Toronto thus people consume a lot of services here (flying in, hotel, couple days touring here) plus all of the activity supplying these ships.
In addition theare are now cruises starting here that go east to NL, Greenland, etc. Finally there is one that goes through the Northwest Passage.
www.cruiseandferry.net
In addition theare are now cruises starting here that go east to NL, Greenland, etc. Finally there is one that goes through the Northwest Passage.
Port of Toronto experiences record cruise season in 2023
PortsToronto experienced a record cruise season at the Port of Toronto Cruise Ship Terminal, with 45 ships bringing 18,000 guests to the Canadian city. Vessels from cruise lines including Viking, Hapag-Lloyd, Ponant, Plantours, American Queen and Pearl Seas visited the port. Viking’s Viking...
lenaitch
Senior Member
No, but it seems to be an open secret among some, including city planners, that it doesn't fit 'the vision' or isn't the 'highest and best use' for the land, or 'wouldn't it make a great spot for a condo'. Short of outright advocating that Redpath leave (which, coming from any official position is really poor urban planning), it is often couched in 'just wondering' or 'if they ever decided to leave'.
Apologies if I tarred you with that brush. Toronto is not alone. Many see Ontario waterfront properties better used for balconies and umbrellas that ports of commerce.
The reality probably is, if Redpath ever left Toronto, they would likely leave the province if not the country.
Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
Maintenance and repair need not be co-located with the passenger terminal/peir. Ex. We took a Mediterranean cruise last summer departing Trieste (a fairly large port, for both cargo and cruise ships). Our embarkation happened at the cruise pier, approx a 15 mins walk from the main train station. However our disembarkation was approx 3km down the shore where cargo and dry dock operations are.. Granted Toronto's shoreline doesn't have much space to put in ship handling facilities other than the current Toronto Port.
Maybe Hamilton or Oshawa Ports could be used for maintenance.
lenaitch
Senior Member
For many of the companies operating in the Great Lakes, the cruise season is only part of their business model, They're not going to have them ice-bound not making money. Even if they did, there are lots of Great Lakes ports that already have marine maintenance facilities, such as Port Weller, Thunder Bay and Duluth.
I did a quick search of a couple of ships. Viking Octantis is currently off the southern tip of South America bound for Port Stanley, Falkland Islands, and Pearl Seas Pearl Mist is currently docked at Norfolk VA.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
I took a two week cruise on Viking in 2022 to the Baltic. No kids, no casinos, no art shows, no fees to eat at the better restaurants, free booze and deserts anywhere on the ship, no nickel and diming, no nonsense. It was wonderful.