Creationism vs Evolution

[wonderboy416]

I'm a big, BIG fan of Mr Richard Dawkins. I have read his books, viewed his lectures and am convinced that if more prominent figures displayed his enthusiasm towards atheism we'd be living in a drastically different world.

Anyway, rather than go down the slippery slope of religious beliefs I decided to get as simple as possible.

- We were created by some divine being(s)
- Life on this planet originated and evolves from a natural process

I realize that some non-religious people may choose the first option and that religious followers may choose the second, that's fine as this is not a poll about your religious beliefs per say (although I personally think it's hypocritical to be religious and choose the evolution route as you are simply cherry picking which aspects of your religion you agree with). There's also a zillion different ways to make such a poll, ie. how old is the earth? is there a god? etc

I'm most curious to see where the UT folks on this board think life originated from.

I shutter at the idea of creationism being taught in schools and fear that with the current regime in power in Canada that we too may one day face that dark day where there's debate as to whether or not it should be presented to our youngsters as an alternative theory...

For the record I'm 100% atheist - but I'll never shove it in someone's face...

 

[gristle]

Life is a product of natural processes. Evolution is the process of change. There is an impressive body of evidence to indicate this fact.

I consider myself a pragmatic agnostic and hold the view that there is no proof of either the existence or nonexistence of any deity(s). Such a debate lies outside the realm of science as there has been no evidence offered that can be verified or refuted.

 

[kettal]

I shutter at the idea of creationism being taught in schools and fear that with the current regime in power in Canada that we too may one day face that dark day where there's debate as to whether or not it should be presented to our youngsters as an alternative theory...

When was the last time the federal govt had any influence on the education curriculum at all?

 

[W. K. Lis]

Life on this planet originated and evolves from natural processes, based on "blueprints" or "natural laws" created by some divine being.

 

[Urban Shocker]

Only beautiful buildings are created by divine beings - Peter Clewes being the main creator hereabouts at the moment.

 

[gristle]

Life on this planet originated and evolves from natural processes, based on "blueprints" or "natural laws" created by some divine being.

Can you prove any part about natural laws being created by a divine being? Can you show verifiable evidence?

 

[wonderboy416]

Life on this planet originated and evolves from natural processes, based on "blueprints" or "natural laws" created by some divine being.

I'm curious too, how did you arrive at this conclusion? To me it seems like a compromise between religious beliefs (the devine being, "the master plan" etc...) and science (how life came to be and how it adapts).

It seems like a nice way not to piss off your date if your asked what your beliefs are without knowing theirs ahead of time... but what makes you believe in a divine being? What evidence is there to prove it exists?

Also, if said being laid out the plans for the universe, then where did this being come from? Who created it? Or is that where you stop thinking?

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

THERE IS NO GOD...................but allah and muhammad is his prophet.

Life is a product of natural processes. Evolution is the process of change. There is an impressive body of evidence to indicate this fact.

I consider myself a pragmatic agnostic and hold the view that there is no proof of either the existence or nonexistence of any deity(s). Such a debate lies outside the realm of science as there has been no evidence offered that can be verified or refuted.

but how do you know that life is a product of natural processes? you have no evidence that all those processes throughout all time were and are natural.

p.s, i'm messing with you because you took a position in the first half of your response but didn't in the second half.

yes, i'm agnostic too but i still don't believe there is a god or gods which makes me an evil red communist ATHEIST! you don't have to have proof to disbelieve in something.

 

[wonderboy416]

If you were to group Americans by faith, the Agnostic/Atheist group would be the second largest group by far. Yet small religious groups such as the Jews have tremendous political pull, the non-god believers have next to none. There's also been studies done showing that non-believers generally do much better in the academic world and something like 5% of all scientists believe in God. This group isn't composed of a bunch of looney tunes (although I'm sure several do exist).

I guess us non-believers find it extremely hypocritical to go out and try to convert others, beg for money and throw our beliefs into everyone else's face. We also don't thank God or Jesus whenever we win a grammy award... I guess we don't like to tell everyone that we're so great because god wanted us to be better than them either.

I just wish there was a more united front and that it was as socially acceptable to acknowledge the lack of a god as it is to acknowledge god. Instead it remains a taboo subject and even talking about it in public can lead to uncomfortable stares by strangers. I know, it's happened to me a few times. Perhaps I should stare in disbelief the next time I hear people talking about Christianity in a positive light...

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

If you were to group Americans by faith, the Agnostic/Atheist group would be the second largest group by far.

only atheism and agnosticism are not faith based. they are not beliefs with lack of evidence, they are disbeliefs because of lack of evidence. atheism and agnosticism is not a faith or faith group no more an empty glass is a type of drink.

 

[sixrings]

I think that there is a God. Can I provide proof of a God. No technically not. I would say though that this world as bad it is has some amazing things in it. Did all these things just happen by chance. Possibly. However I think it takes just as much faith to believe that this world happened by chance as it takes to believe that there is a God.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

I think that there is a God. Can I provide proof of a God. No technically not. I would say though that this world as bad it is has some amazing things in it. Did all these things just happen by chance. Possibly. However I think it takes just as much faith to believe that this world happened by chance as it takes to believe that there is a God.

who said it happened by chance? you make it sound as if those that don't believe in a god believe the earth said "poof, i exist".

 

[Canuck]

I think that there is a God. Can I provide proof of a God. No technically not. I would say though that this world as bad it is has some amazing things in it. Did all these things just happen by chance. Possibly. However I think it takes just as much faith to believe that this world happened by chance as it takes to believe that there is a God.

I'm re-reading Dawkins book - The God delusion, and your statments reminds me of the great lengths he goes to when pointing out natural selection is the exact opposite of random chance.

 

[wonderboy416]

only atheism and agnosticism are not faith based. they are not beliefs with lack of evidence, they are disbeliefs because of lack of evidence. atheism and agnosticism is not a faith or faith group no more an empty glass is a type of drink.

I was referring to classifying people as per their beliefs. Perhaps it was a poor choice of words but my point still stands as valid.

I'm re-reading Dawkins book - The God delusion, and your statments reminds me of the great lengths he goes to when pointing out natural selection is the exact opposite of random chance.

I thought of that too when I read his comment.

A university student asked Richard Dawkins during one of his lectures the question "what if you're wrong?"
The response is entirely on point, noting that people who are Christian and believe in god actually do so by accident and nothing else.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mmskXXetcg

 

[sixrings]

respectfully disagree, I'm sorry if the word "chance" offended some people. For the record I have read books both supporting Darwin and books that are written from scientists that think that there is a sufficient enough number of holes in his theory. Also I don't believe just because someone believes in a God or multiple Gods doesn't mean that they cant also believe in science as well. For this person the simple answer would be that whomever is in charge either put these things in motion or through these things created and designed things. Anyways whether we use the word chance or natural selection one must admit that there are some things in the word that seem so perfectly designed. OK lets use sex and the male and female organs. First of all even after having had sex for over 10 years it still amazes me how much it feels good. Is this just by "natural selection" or "chance". Again possibly. But I think its probably more then that. I think sex somehow brings two people together mentally as well as physically. You can disagree. But I am sure each of us who have had sex with someone we love would agree that for whatever reason it brings the two together in a indescribable way. Now to complicate this, sex is also used to procreate. Doesn't the fact that we make or carry baby's blow some of our minds. Again yes it could just be natural selection. But most people I know who have had kids say that when that kid is born even in that yucky hospital room, they recognize that this is an amazing event. I guess this could all be natural selection or chance, I just have a hard time believing that. And really what type of proof would we expect if we were looking for proof of God. What would suffice. We cant possibly be looking for Gods DNA anywhere. I'm just curious to think what would be enough proof? Honestly we just live in a culture with information at our fingertips. As a result we think we can calculate and prove anything. We know we as humans are so flawed in so many ways. Why would this area be different.

I guess I wrote enough to warrant a zillion replies. But I don't want to get into a massive debate over this. So have fun witting. Ill just be reading.