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Condo sales in 905.

taal

taal

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taal said:
Thought this was an interesting albeit not very surprising article (at least it should be to us).

http://www.moneyville.ca/article/1057940--905-condo-sales-outstrip-toronto-for-first-time?bn=1

I'm sure this is really being spurred by downtown Marhkam, World On Yonge, and that new development in Markham / Oakville.

Not sure there were many new launches in the 416 this month ?
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No mention of Mississauga at all? Really? I'd think the number of condos in Mississauga is greater than any other city in the 905.
 
This is not all that surprising given the greenbelt law, and the fact that about 50% of jobs are in the 905 now.

Unfortunately most of these new condos are being built in areas with bad transit service, and increasing density in areas with poor transit service will inevitably cause heavy traffic congestion. Better bus and rail service is badly needed in Mississauga Centre, Downtown Markham and elsewhere.
 
andrewpmk said:
This is not all that surprising given the greenbelt law, and the fact that about 50% of jobs are in the 905 now.

Unfortunately most of these new condos are being built in areas with bad transit service, and increasing density in areas with poor transit service will inevitably cause heavy traffic congestion. Better bus and rail service is badly needed in Mississauga Centre, Downtown Markham and elsewhere.
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The Highway 7 transitway ("rapidway" as they're calling it) is now under construction between Bayview and Warden. It'll also result in a much more urban streetscape.
 
I never understood the condo boom in the 905. The entire point for living out there is to live in a house, that isn't prohibitively expensive, with a decent yard. Now you're basically buying downtown-sized condos for less, yet you don't have any of the amenities and services you would get downtown.

It's like the worst of both worlds.
 
Filip said:
I never understood the condo boom in the 905. The entire point for living out there is to live in a house, that isn't prohibitively expensive, with a decent yard. Now you're basically buying downtown-sized condos for less, yet you don't have any of the amenities and services you would get downtown.

It's like the worst of both worlds.
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Not necessarily true. Most of the condos I looked at in Mississauga were over 1000 Sq. ft and much cheaper than anything in that size here in Toronto. They also came with two parking spaces and a locker. You get much more than you would get in a downtown condo and for less than the cost of buying a house. The only thing you don't get is the yard, but not everyone who moves to suburbia is doing so because of space... its all for the cost.
 
Filip said:
I never understood the condo boom in the 905. The entire point for living out there is to live in a house, that isn't prohibitively expensive, with a decent yard. Now you're basically buying downtown-sized condos for less, yet you don't have any of the amenities and services you would get downtown.

It's like the worst of both worlds.
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You mean like this? http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1444374
 
MisterF said:
The Highway 7 transitway ("rapidway" as they're calling it) is now under construction between Bayview and Warden. It'll also result in a much more urban streetscape.
Click to expand...

This doesn't change the fact that the regular YRT (not VIVA) bus service is absolute rubbish. All the regular YRT routes in that area like 1, 8, 85, 90, and TTC 24/224/68 north of Steeles etc. have very poor frequencies off peak, especially on weekends, and VIVA Green has no off peak service at all. Also I would not describe that section of Highway 7 as urban, it is mostly office parks and big box retail right now. Without big transit improvements (much more extensive than bus lanes on Highway 7), 90% of these condo residents will be driving to work.

I can understand the popularity of 905 condos because there are lots of jobs in the 905, and houses in nice neighbourhoods close to the major office parks have become expensive (500K) due to the greenbelt while condos in the 905 are cheaper (300-400K for a 2 bedroom condo). However I don't think that this is a desirable trend.

The Humber river is also a very poor location for condos as well transit-wise. The transit connection with downtown TO is very poor (basically the 501 streetcar which is extremely slow, and the infrequent #77 bus to Old Mill). There is no retail except for the big box stores on the north side of the Gardiner. There ought to be a station at Humber Loop on the Lakeshore GO train line but there isn't, there is only the inconveniently located station at Mimico. Also the Gardiner and Lake Shore get very congested at rush hour.
 
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Filip said:
I never understood the condo boom in the 905. The entire point for living out there is to live in a house, that isn't prohibitively expensive, with a decent yard. Now you're basically buying downtown-sized condos for less, yet you don't have any of the amenities and services you would get downtown.

It's like the worst of both worlds.
Click to expand...

Some people do not have the time, energy or desire to maintain a large house and yard.
 
Default

I never understood the condo boom in the 905. The entire point for living out there is to live in a house, that isn't prohibitively expensive, with a decent yard. Now you're basically buying downtown-sized condos for less, yet you don't have any of the amenities and services you would get downtown.

It's like the worst of both worlds.
Click to expand...

As was mentioned above, it's mostly about the money. The days of being able to sell a Toronto condo (with the exception of very large suites) and buy a house in the burbs are long gone, with the exceptions of Durham Region, Simcoe County, Hamilton, etc. The median detached home is $565,000 in Mississauga and $688,000 in Markham, whereas the median condo in the 416 is $364,437. I know I'm comparing apples and oranges here, but I'm always amazed by people who think they could trade their run-of the-mill 2-bedroom condo downtown for a house in the burbs.
 
The days are also gone when the majority of suburbanites actually worked in the city core. It did used to be about your little piece of land and white picket fence that you couldn't afford in the city, but times have changed and a lot of people simply don't want or need the work involved with home ownership. They simply don't have time and condo living frees you to have more time for work or play. Another demographic influence is the number of boomers going into retirement and downsizing out of their homes and into buildings, which they may prefer in the suburbs rather than in the core. Further, it used to be that 2 years salary could buy you a starter home in the burbs, where now it's probably 5 years salary at best. This too pushes people into lower cost condos. Lastly, what has also changed is people's mentality about space and consumption and they're realizing they don't want to heat, cool or clean a home when they could live with a smaller footprint.

There are a whole lot of reasons why people would want to live in buildings in the 'burbs'.
 
andrewpmk said:
This doesn't change the fact that the regular YRT (not VIVA) bus service is absolute rubbish. All the regular YRT routes in that area like 1, 8, 85, 90, and TTC 24/224/68 north of Steeles etc. have very poor frequencies off peak, especially on weekends, and VIVA Green has no off peak service at all. Also I would not describe that section of Highway 7 as urban, it is mostly office parks and big box retail right now. Without big transit improvements (much more extensive than bus lanes on Highway 7), 90% of these condo residents will be driving to work.
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I didn't say that Highway 7 is urban, I said the streetscape is going to be much more urban when it's done. The way the new sidewalks are designed is a lot like Dundas outside the Eaton Centre or even Bloor through downtown. The surrounding neighbourhoods and most of the buildings on Highway 7 itself are still very suburban. As for big transit improvements, you have to start somewhere. 90% is way to high - even now only 74% of Markham residents drive to work. That number will only get lower as more condos get built along Highway 7 and around the GO stations.
 
Many of these condos have access to transit or are within walking distance of retail.

In Oakville, condos are being built mostly in:
-Uptown Oakville... not so great for now, although there are buses and strip malls, however the plan is for more pedestrian friendly retail and BRTs on Dundas and maybe Trafalgar.
-Downtown Oakville: great location with the waterfront and shopping and a short drive from GO
-Kerr Village: Close to downtown Oakville with some local shops, walking distance from GO
-Bronte: similar to downtown Oakville although the shopping isn't quite as great, but it's probably cheaper (DT Oakville can be as high as $1000/sf)

Downtown Mississauga is supposed to have an LRT in a few years, I think the 403 BRT is coming soon I think and it has good access to highways and shopping. Port Credit and Streetsville have some development too, and they have GO and local retail (+ waterfront & future LRT for Port Credit). The rest are mostly close to shopping malls and highways... which is not what your downtown Toronto condo owner might be looking for but it has some draw for suburbanites.
 
Situated in hilly terrain of the Humber River Valley, Woodbridge rests at an average elevation of 200 metres between Highway 27 and Pine Valley Drive. The terrain can be described as a series of rolling hills and valleys requiring plenty of planning when road construction projects are initiated. There are numerous valley intersections that demonstrate the geography of the area, notably Highway 7 and Islington and Highway 27 and Rutherford.
 
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