rbt
Senior Member
Property taxes are relative to the value of the property.
A $2M Yorkville condominium has much higher property taxes than a $500k Riverdale house.
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Condo Fees vs. Home Ownership
- Thread starter West End Boy
- Start date
Property taxes are relative to the value of the property.
A $2M Yorkville condominium has much higher property taxes than a $500k Riverdale house.
MetropolisM3
Active Member
True, but on average condos tend to be less expensive than a house. I don't have any numbers but if I were to guess I'd say the average condo is worth about 300k , and the average house is worth about 500k, I'm probably off on the exact numbers but probably not by much.
Condo maintenance fees are generally seen as "wasted" money, you pay $300-400 on average for maintenance of the condo but none of that actually goes towards the maintenance of your individual unit. In these debates people don't usually mention property tax though. A 600k house probably doesn't cost the owner $400 in maintenance fees every month, but the person living in the 300k condo pays many thousands less a year in property tax, which is also "wasted" money. In the end, the amount of "wasted' money is equivalent whether you live in a house or a condo. You'll pay 10k per year in maintence and property tax living in an average house, which is the same you'd pay in the average condo. When it comes to wasted money, nobody wins, condo and house owners lose equally.
Eug
Senior Member
That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. People generally live in condos that cost less because they can't afford more, or else they don't want to spend more. Sure an average condo downtown might cost $300000, but that's because you're living in a 1-bedroom shoebox.
However, in certain areas you can buy a freehold townhouse and a condo townhouse that are similarly spec'd and which can be in a similar ballpark for pricing. In that context, the property tax would be similar. That's the proper comparison.
MetropolisM3
Active Member
We're not talking about townhouses, we're comparing houses and condos. I don't know where you can find a 300k house in Toronto, but if one exists I don't think anyone would want to live there. If we're just talking about the cost of ownership between the average house and the average condo, the maintenance fees will be higher for the condo, the property tax will be higher for the house, and in the end it evens out. Of course the average house costs more than the average condo so the mortgage payments will be higher, which means higher interest payments. The house will also have a higher hydro bill.
In my mind, money spent is money spent. It doesn't matter if it's money spent on maintenance, property tax, mortgage interest or hydro, it's money that essentially goes down the drain. Taking all payments into consideration, it costs more to own an average house over an average condo on a yearly basis. It's not fair to compare a 5 million dollar house with a 300k condo, and it's not fair to compare a 2 million dollar condo with a 500k house, nor is it fair to compare a 300k house (if one exists in Toronto) with a 300k condo in Toronto since the house is well below what the average person has, and that 300k condo is the average condo. I do think it's fair to compare a 300k condo with a 500k house since those are the average prices. In these discussions if you don't talk about the average house and the average condo it's not really a fair comparison. A 300k house in this city is very rare, a 300k condo in this city is average and common, how is it fair to compare them?
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Eug
Senior Member
1. Townhouses can be either freehold or condos, and are a consideration for many people, so they are definintely part of the discussion. Hell, you can even get detached house type condos (although they're extremely rare in cities like Toronto). Often the reason people don't buy detached homes and live in townhouses is because they can't afford a bigger detached home in the location they want. That's often the exact same reason others may live in condos.
2. $300000 townhouses are extremely common in Toronto, and yes, they are often very nice. That's why I mentioned them in the first place. In fact, my condo downtown was a 2-bedroom 1000+ square foot townhouse. Now it would go for well over $400000, but that's right smack downtown (east of Bathurst and north of Front). If you move out of downtown, it's quite easy to find a nice townhouse for closer to $300000. Not necessarily a 3-bedroom 4-person family-friendly townhouse, but a townhouse nonetheless. Some are condos, and some are freehold. For the former, you pay condo fees, and for the latter you deal with the maintenance yourself. Property taxes for both would be similar, depending on price.
3. $600000 semis and detached homes are very common in Toronto. $600000 condos are also relatively common downtown. If you've got $600000 to spend, it's moronic to say the property taxes will be cheaper in a condo because many condos are $300000. Like I said, that just makes no sense whatsoever. Property taxes are based on home value.
BTW, my sister actually pays more in property taxes in a condo than I do in a detached home. However, that's because she lives in a 1800 square foot waterfront condo, and my house (which is significantly bigger) was underassessed by the city for a long time. I live in a nice neighbourhood, and it's one of the nicer homes in the neighbourhood, but it's not downtown obviously, nor is it Forest Hill. Unfortunately for me, the city is catching up on its assessments, and my property taxes will be going up soon.
Oh and why did she pay big bux for a 1800 square foot condo downtown? Because she could. She wasn't going to move into a $300000 shoebox condo just because a lot of other people are in $300000 shoebox condos.
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taal
Senior Member
One issue I find is with condo townhomes which are part of a larger condo complex. The maintenance fees in most condos (i.e. apartments) are generally in excess of 60 cents. That means if you look at a 1600+ square foot town house (pretty common for a larger 3 bedroom, particulary when spread across 3 floors), you're looking in excess of $1000 monthly. But most condo townhouses that don't have a condo attached but still have under ground parking generally only have condo fees around 30 cents, so you're looking at $500 (yes no pool or the like) but I'm sure no one will pay 500 a month for pool access or the like.
jbtaylor
New Member
Condo Fees vs. Amenities
Which of these two would have the biggest impact on a resale. (1) Condo Fees of $1.00 per sq. ft, or (2) Amenities (Gym, Party Room, Games Room, Roof Patio) need to be updated.
Which of these two would have the biggest impact on a resale. (1) Condo Fees of $1.00 per sq. ft, or (2) Amenities (Gym, Party Room, Games Room, Roof Patio) need to be updated.
FinancialFergy
New Member
It really depends on what kind of condo you are getting. Many condo's in Toronto charge very high rates, close to $500-$600 but they include a doorman, workout rooms, etc. If you go into the burbs, you may find condo corporations who own properties, again it depends. They might cover your roof being done, insurance, etc. but it depends on the corporation and location.
I know my answer isn't what you would like but really it depends on your situation. Oftentimes, home ownership can be cheaper but at times it isn't. You need to take everything into consideration including what the condo corp covers so you wont have to.
For more information on home ownership and real estate investing please visit my site.
Devon - www.fergusonfinancial.ca
Regular
New Member
Most condo includes utilities like water, electricity, cable and etc in one fee. A house would be maintenance fees around it plus utility bills.
urban
New Member
Didn't know where to put this as it probably doesnt warrant its own thread but...
I'm planning on buying my first condo. I've done a bit of research and found variable info. I'd like to know how much I should expect to be paying IN ADDITION to the condo. (eg. maintainance fee, appraisal fee, transfer tax, property tax etc)
From my research, it seems that MONTHLY, I will need to pay, in addition to my mortgage, house insurance, maintance fees, property tax.
As a ONE TIME payment, I would need to pay, in addition to my down payment, land transfer tax, appraisal fee, home inspection.
Lets say I find a $330k condo in Toronto. Can someone give me a rough estimate of how much I would be paying both monthly and upfront for all these extra fees?
Would be greatly appreciated.
I'm planning on buying my first condo. I've done a bit of research and found variable info. I'd like to know how much I should expect to be paying IN ADDITION to the condo. (eg. maintainance fee, appraisal fee, transfer tax, property tax etc)
From my research, it seems that MONTHLY, I will need to pay, in addition to my mortgage, house insurance, maintance fees, property tax.
As a ONE TIME payment, I would need to pay, in addition to my down payment, land transfer tax, appraisal fee, home inspection.
Lets say I find a $330k condo in Toronto. Can someone give me a rough estimate of how much I would be paying both monthly and upfront for all these extra fees?
Would be greatly appreciated.
Hey urban, other monthly fees could include hydro. Some condos include it in maintenance fees, some don't. Same with cable. On the plus side, condo insurance isn't all that expensive 
Some buildings charge maintenance fees for parking and/or locker separately from the main fees, so be sure to ask about that too.
As for how much you'll pay? Size matters so you'll need to figure out based on that -- maintenance fees are determined by square footage.
Some buildings charge maintenance fees for parking and/or locker separately from the main fees, so be sure to ask about that too.As for how much you'll pay? Size matters so you'll need to figure out based on that -- maintenance fees are determined by square footage.
Condo Madness
New Member
Urban;
Use an experienced real estate agent to represent you as a Buyer's Agent. A good one, that knows and works in the area where you want to buy is very important.
Besides the condo fees, you may have to pay your own electrical bill. On top of that, the newer condos hit you with an air conditioning/heating charge. Cable TV, telephone and the Internet is on top of that. Some condos service the unit's fan coils and clean dryer vents as part of the condo fees while in others, you must pay.
So when you compare buildings, you must add all of these fees together to get the total cost. Make a spreadsheet when comparing buildings so you can properly compare costs.
Individual metering is promoted as a way for you to keep your costs lower. In reality, individual meeting is really designed to keep the common element fees low so it looks good to the uninformed buyers.
Use an experienced real estate agent to represent you as a Buyer's Agent. A good one, that knows and works in the area where you want to buy is very important.
Besides the condo fees, you may have to pay your own electrical bill. On top of that, the newer condos hit you with an air conditioning/heating charge. Cable TV, telephone and the Internet is on top of that. Some condos service the unit's fan coils and clean dryer vents as part of the condo fees while in others, you must pay.
So when you compare buildings, you must add all of these fees together to get the total cost. Make a spreadsheet when comparing buildings so you can properly compare costs.
Individual metering is promoted as a way for you to keep your costs lower. In reality, individual meeting is really designed to keep the common element fees low so it looks good to the uninformed buyers.
BillJackson
Banned
How to Decide: House vs Condo
A detached house with a two-car garage and a backyard has long been the real estate dream of future buyers. But a burgeoning condo market means a wider variety of property options for homebuyers and the realization that a house doesn’t always have to be the goal.
“We all grow up thinking that buying a house is the ideal,†says Brian Elder, a Toronto-based real estate agent. “Everybody wants to own a piece of land, own the house that sits on it, and there are great advantages to that.â€
“But,†Elder continues, “there are advantages and disadvantages to owning a house or owning a condo and it just really depends on your personality and how you live your life.â€
To help buyers make the decision between a house and a condo, Elder has suggestions on what to consider.
House
A house affords owners a lot of freedom and independence when it comes to implementing their own ideas about design and style.
“You get to choose what colour you paint the outside, or how you choose to decorate the exterior landscape,†Elder says. Unlike a condo, where someone else has already made decisions about the building’s décor and features, house owners can exert almost completely control over their home’s appearance and components.
“The choices you make about the house are yours to make as long as they’re in line with the city bylaws,†Elder says.
But that freedom doesn’t come without a price.
“Because all the decisions are yours, the responsibilities are all also yours,†Elder warns. “If there’s a problem with the roof or any issues with the home, it’s something you have to look after.â€
A house is a good choice for a buyer who:
is comfortable with handiwork and maintenance
is able to afford upkeep and any emergency repairs
wants privacy
wants control over design
Condo
A condo is a great solution for a buyer who is after a turnkey lifestyle.
“If buyers have a really busy life or maybe they’re not handy and the thought of doing anything in terms of upgrades makes them uncomfortable, then owning a condo is easier,†Elder says.
The amenities available in a condo building are also a great perk. “There’s often a pool, a gym, a party room and more,†Elder says. “It’s an ease of living.â€
The high density of many condo buildings could be a good or bad thing, depending on the buyer. Living in a condo could mean having hundreds of neighbours, as opposed to a dozen. It may pose a problem for buyers looking for privacy.
Plus, amenities, ease of living and turnkey lifestyle of condos are possible only with monthly maintenance fees, which often scare buyers away.
“People are very maintenance fee-sensitive. They want them to be as low as possible,†Elder says.
A condo is a good choice for a buyer who:
doesn’t want the responsibility of maintenance and repairs
wants access to amenities such as a gym
wants a living space that will be move-in ready, without the need for upgrades
doesn’t mind living in a large community
A detached house with a two-car garage and a backyard has long been the real estate dream of future buyers. But a burgeoning condo market means a wider variety of property options for homebuyers and the realization that a house doesn’t always have to be the goal.
“We all grow up thinking that buying a house is the ideal,†says Brian Elder, a Toronto-based real estate agent. “Everybody wants to own a piece of land, own the house that sits on it, and there are great advantages to that.â€
“But,†Elder continues, “there are advantages and disadvantages to owning a house or owning a condo and it just really depends on your personality and how you live your life.â€
To help buyers make the decision between a house and a condo, Elder has suggestions on what to consider.
House
A house affords owners a lot of freedom and independence when it comes to implementing their own ideas about design and style.
“You get to choose what colour you paint the outside, or how you choose to decorate the exterior landscape,†Elder says. Unlike a condo, where someone else has already made decisions about the building’s décor and features, house owners can exert almost completely control over their home’s appearance and components.
“The choices you make about the house are yours to make as long as they’re in line with the city bylaws,†Elder says.
But that freedom doesn’t come without a price.
“Because all the decisions are yours, the responsibilities are all also yours,†Elder warns. “If there’s a problem with the roof or any issues with the home, it’s something you have to look after.â€
A house is a good choice for a buyer who:
is comfortable with handiwork and maintenance
is able to afford upkeep and any emergency repairs
wants privacy
wants control over design
Condo
A condo is a great solution for a buyer who is after a turnkey lifestyle.
“If buyers have a really busy life or maybe they’re not handy and the thought of doing anything in terms of upgrades makes them uncomfortable, then owning a condo is easier,†Elder says.
The amenities available in a condo building are also a great perk. “There’s often a pool, a gym, a party room and more,†Elder says. “It’s an ease of living.â€
The high density of many condo buildings could be a good or bad thing, depending on the buyer. Living in a condo could mean having hundreds of neighbours, as opposed to a dozen. It may pose a problem for buyers looking for privacy.
Plus, amenities, ease of living and turnkey lifestyle of condos are possible only with monthly maintenance fees, which often scare buyers away.
“People are very maintenance fee-sensitive. They want them to be as low as possible,†Elder says.
A condo is a good choice for a buyer who:
doesn’t want the responsibility of maintenance and repairs
wants access to amenities such as a gym
wants a living space that will be move-in ready, without the need for upgrades
doesn’t mind living in a large community
NorthYorkEd
Active Member
There is no right or wrong answer. It really comes down to your personal lifestyle preference.
ChesterCopperpot
Senior Member
Just wondering about the average annual increase in condo fees. I'm just asking because the fees in the building I currently rent in are going up 15% starting December 1st.