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Clubland vs. Residential

H

Hydrogen

Guest
Residential is coming to clubland.

Who knows about a Walmart.


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Very weird.

This thread was not started by me, yet I'm the lead. Must be the work of the magical moderati and their bulletin board stardust tricks.
 
I could easily see most of clubland getting retrofitted into condo's or apartments in the next 10, 15 years.

it would look very new york-ish, that's for sure.
 
Clubland's days should be numbered. Not because of the noise they make disrupting residents in the area. Clubland was effective in creating an entertainment district and a sense of place for clubs, but I COMPLETELY disagree with the by-law banning dance clubs from anywhere else in the downtown. City Council needs to review that by-law and scrap it. Clubs WILL continue to locate in the area since it now has a sense of place, but clubs will also move out to new locations, spreading the 2:30am drunkenness throughout downtown a little more, likely resulting in less fights, brawls and danger.
 
Yeah I want neighbourhood night clubs--like mtl has. It's a real pain living car less in the junction nabe and there's literally zero clubs to go to at night; the thought of going downtown is sometimes a mental barrier that prevents me from enjoying the city at night. The entertainment district is ultimately a dated, 20th century Toronto the Good Presbyterian Idea of Fun: segregate it from the population. I've grown up; has Toronto and its clubbers grown up too?

And besides, since most of the clubbers in the club district are 905-ers, why can't they just club in their own neighbourhoods, pee on their own doorsteps, and shoot in their own turf wars?
 
Yeah I want neighbourhood night clubs--like mtl has. It's a real pain living car less in the junction nabe and there's literally zero clubs to go to at night; the thought of going downtown is sometimes a mental barrier that prevents me from enjoying the city at night. The entertainment district is ultimately a dated, 20th century Toronto the Good Presbyterian Idea of Fun: segregate it from the population. I've grown up; has Toronto and its clubbers grown up too?

And besides, since most of the clubbers in the club district are 905-ers, why can't they just club in their own neighbourhoods, pee on their own doorsteps, and shoot in their own turf wars?

I don't think the Entertainment District concept has anything to do with Toronto's conservative past at all. It has brought a lot of life to the area and was a good idea at the time.

I do agree clubs should be allowed elsewhere, but the Entertainment District wasn't a bad idea.
 
^Nor is it a bad idea today. The problem is that too many people have tended to restrict the idea of "entertainment" to just the clubs. It would be nice to see more diversity in the type of venues than just that of big clubs. For example, right now there are more restaurants in the vicinity than dance clubs. Going beyond that, I'd love to see more galleries, maybe a small museum, and some intimate performance venues - along with more residents and retail. The area can be a pretty dead on a Tuesday evening. Mixing things up might change that - without resorting to booming music or projectile vomitting suburbo-clubbers.
 
^Nor is it a bad idea today. The problem is that too many people have tended to restrict the idea of "entertainment" to just the clubs. It would be nice to see more diversity in the type of venues than just that of big clubs. For example, right now there are more restaurants in the vicinity than dance clubs. Going beyond that, I'd love to see more galleries, maybe a small museum, and some intimate performance venues - along with more residents and retail. The area can be a pretty dead on a Tuesday evening. Mixing things up might change that - without resorting to booming music or projectile vomitting suburbo-clubbers.

I agree, though I think the patrons of these clubs get a worse rap than they deserve.
 
Oh, I agree. But a minority of them give the area a rep that is sticking.
 
I like strolling through clubland occasionally in the summer because it is high-energy and lively. It is a distinctive part of the city that'll inevitably fade as the echo boom ages, swims upstream to spawn, takes on mortgages, and acquires middle-aged spread - so why not enjoy it while we can?. The following generation of teens and twenties won't want to inherit these venues.

Isn't Gatien's Circa supposed to include art galleries and "diversity"?
 
It is a distinctive part of the city that'll inevitably fade as the echo boom ages, swims upstream to spawn, takes on mortgages, and acquires middle-aged spread - so why not enjoy it while we can?. The following generation of teens and twenties won't want to inherit these venues.

I'm not so sure about that. The thing about most of these venues is that they're constantly re-inventing themselves. When I think back to my earlier university days (late 90s) most of the clubs that were there are now gone/renamed. There's an entire new generation of clubbers and the district is even more popular with them than it was with us.

As long as clubs keep changing their names/themes I don't see the Entertainment District going anywhere, though I do see it downsizing (as far as clubs go anyways).
 
I'm surprised at the number of teenagers and high schoolers who are venturing down to the clubbing district now..I think it has as bright a future as ever
 
I'm surprised at the number of teenagers and high schoolers who are venturing down to the clubbing district now..I think it has as bright a future as ever

Your name actually brings up an interesting question...does anyone remember what "Lobby" (the club across from the ROM, besides McDonald's) was before it opened? I don't remember it being a club, and I thought no clubs could open outside the Entertainment District...
 
Isn't Gatien's Circa supposed to include art galleries and "diversity"?

Circa owner going around in circles

Super club still closed as liquor authority appeals licensing decision, putting Circa's future in limbo

Aug 12, 2007 04:30 AM
Raju Mudhar
Entertainment Reporter

The party was finally supposed to be on. Circa, the super club in the former Playdium/Lucid space on John St., finally received approval of its liquor licence on July 31. Bookers, party planners and promoters started calling and showing up unannounced to begin scheduling events at the cavernous, still-unfinished space.

Eight days after the positive ruling, the Alcohol and Gaming Commission of Ontario (AGCO) informed former New York club king Peter Gatien that its staff have decided to appeal its own decision and is going to the Divisional Court for a stay of proceedings, effectively putting the club's licence in limbo until the motion is heard, which might come as early as next week.

"Where's this leave us? Quite frankly, we are continuing as normal. It's business as usual. Our mandate is to open up on Sept. 7 and we are not going to be distracted internally by this. We've signed a contract (for a Film Festival party). That date has to happen," says Gatien in the makeshift offices up on Circa's fourth storey.

It's been two years since Gatien announced that he was building a club that would tower over his previous achievements. Since then, it's been a torturous and twisted tale worthy of a soap opera. After his licence hearing last month, the two board members issued a 26-page ruling unequivocally supporting Gatien, at one point praising him as "well known for his business acumen, and a person who appears determined to make a new beginning. The board considers him ... committed to running a business in accordance with the law."

That was then. Now the AGCO staff, which investigates licensees, has decided to appeal the board's decision.

"It's not whether we're happy or unhappy (with the board's decision)," says Richard Kulis, general counsel for the AGCO. "It's just that there are some concerns with the legal issue of how the board interpreted past conduct and public interest."

The public interest concerns the ongoing controversy about Toronto's Entertainment district. Some residents feel that the area has too many clubs. But Gatien's lawyer Jerry Levitan says only one resident testified against the licence.

In any case, he says that's not the AGCO's concern.

"It's a live issue in the city of Toronto, but the reality is that the city of Toronto created or facilitated the creation of this area," says Levitan, who is known for specializing in liquor licensing cases.

Gatien goes further: "This is the Entertainment district. Are we getting to a point where we're deciding who gets to go into what neighbourhood? If you say no to clubs, what about the others? So then no new business should open in this area, including the Film Festival people, restaurants, hotels."

Levitan adds that in their defence, they provided many letters of support for clubs, from organizations like the ROM, the Museum of Contemporary Canadian Art and many other cultural leaders He also adds that he's never seen a case where the AGCO has appealed its own decision. Circa has already dealt with unusual circumstances to get to this point, taking 11 months to get to a liquor licence hearing, a process that he says usually takes only five to seven weeks.

Gatien's past has seemingly been a factor. In the mid-'90s, the Cornwall-born entrepreneur raised the ire of New York authorities that believed he was selling drugs in his clubs. After a two-year investigation and five-week trial, Gatien was acquitted of drug trafficking. He was found guilty of tax evasion. He was fined $1.9 million and spent 60 days in jail but continued to run his clubs.

Also, as promoter, Gatien hired Michael Alig, who was convicted of killing Angel Melendez in what was known as New York's Club Kid murder, fictionalized in the 2003 film Party Monster. Gatien was deported to Canada in 2003. Circa is his return to the entertainment business, and his vision for the club is much more than a regular nightclub, a mixture of art gallery, exhibition and event space that he hopes will help revitalize the area.

Much of Gatien's past was brought up during the licensing hearings – with the registrar even bringing up the drug enforcement agent who investigated Gatien. But in the decision, the board basically said these past incidents were not grounds for denying the licence.

"Whoever is fearing that we will be a negative influence in Toronto has not done their homework, or has got something personal against me. I can't figure out what the problem is ... What's wrong with me? I'm an experienced operator ... I've got a lot on the line. I've got my life, my reputations, whatever dollars I've accumulated, my partner Ari Kulidjian, it's the same. Mortgaged houses, everything, the whole bit.


"I'm not the first person who has been given a licence that has an uglier or more serious criminal record... I know I'd bet on me."

The question ahead of him right now is whether the Divisional Court will or not.
 

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