Chinatown East: Zhong Hua Men Gate

[Northern Light]

Nice, if modest

I think its nice, but too modest.

Really, it should have gone over Gerrard, and that completely do-able with public land on both sides.

The City just didn't want to pay for it.

To be fair, to span the road, and keep the proportions roughly similar, you are talking a structure 4x the size at least, maybe more, and probably 10x the cost.

But I think a landmark like that would have been a very worthwhile investment.

I wonder if we will ever see a similar arch in the Spadina Chinatown....and if we do, whether they will cheap out the same way.

The thought of a towering arch over all of Spadina Avenue appeals to me; though now we're probably talking 50M or more.....

A more modest, but still very majestic arch could be built over Dundas.

 

[Torontovibe]

It looks good but the only way this makes any sense, is if this parking lot is turned into a park. It's really hard to understand why the Chinese community and even the city, thought this was a proper place for an arch. It defeats the purpose of beautifying the neighbourhood. It's site is a really bad choice, that parking lot is ugly. It's impossible to take an attractive picture of this structure.

This should have been over the road. I wonder who's bright idea this originally was? Only in Toronto could something as obviously retarded as this happen. lol An arch into an ugly parking lot, genius!
There is no other choice, it has to be turned into a park or public square. If that's done, it might actually be a great asset to the community, Otherwise, it's pointless.

And why hasn't this gotten any press or publicity at all? Isn't the point of things like this to bring more shoppers to the area? Somebody is not doing their job. They should have had a party, closed down the street and turned it into a big BIA festival. It's the perfect opportunity to showcase Asian design, culture and start building a positive image of Chinatown East. Clean that place up, add a bit of culture, a dash of fun and we might have a new ethnic destination worth traveling to see. They needed to hire someone to do things right. It's just another missed opportunity, in a city that has far too many of them.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

They had a party last Saturday.

And why hasn't this gotten any press or publicity at all? Isn't the point of things like this to bring more shoppers to the area? Somebody is not doing their job. They should have had a party, closed down the street and turned it into a big BIA festival. It's the perfect opportunity to showcase Asian design, culture and start building a positive image of Chinatown East. Clean that place up, add a bit of culture, a dash of fun and we might have a new ethnic destination worth traveling to see. They needed to hire someone to do things right. It's just another missed opportunity, in a city that has far too many of them.

Sorry you missed your invite. They set up the stage normally set up for Canada Day at Langley and Broadview by the Sun Yat Sen statue, lots of tents with food/drinks, dancers, etc. I didn't see the actual opening ceremony, but the firecracker debris on Sunday in front of the Gate was pretty awesome -- they must have had a LOUD opening!

 

[Tewder]

I think its nice, but too modest.

Really, it should have gone over Gerrard, and that completely do-able with public land on both sides.

The City just didn't want to pay for it.

To be fair, to span the road, and keep the proportions roughly similar, you are talking a structure 4x the size at least, maybe more, and probably 10x the cost.

But I think a landmark like that would have been a very worthwhile investment.

I wonder if we will ever see a similar arch in the Spadina Chinatown....and if we do, whether they will cheap out the same way.

The thought of a towering arch over all of Spadina Avenue appeals to me; though now we're probably talking 50M or more.....

A more modest, but still very majestic arch could be built over Dundas.

I like the idea of a monumental arch, but a simple and modern one and not necessary for Chinatown although Spadina does feel like a good choice as a crossroads of so many nabes and as a very busy and grand-scale pedestrian artery.

I quite like the Chinese arch. I gather it's not completely authentic but that's just fine with me. It's far more interesting to see traditional ideas updated and adapted to their new Toronto setting.

 

[madmolecule]

Good idea about the park, Torontovibe!

I would be interested to hear the comments of those knowledgeable about "feng shui", as it involves very definite ideas about the significance of how objects are positioned...

 

[wyliepoon]

I've heard that if an archway does come to Chinatown at Spadina/Dundas, the arch would span neither Spadina nor Dundas, but at Huron Street near Dundas.

And why hasn't this gotten any press or publicity at all? Isn't the point of things like this to bring more shoppers to the area? Somebody is not doing their job. They should have had a party, closed down the street and turned it into a big BIA festival. It's the perfect opportunity to showcase Asian design, culture and start building a positive image of Chinatown East.

I don't know if East Chinatown has a BIA, but if there is, I don't expect the BIA to function like other BIAs. Merchant groups in Chinatowns tend to be associations that focus more on protecting each other's interests than on promoting their area to the rest of the city (perhaps the 'Chinese ghetto' mindset still exists).

I'd imagine the biggest reason why there is a Chinatown Gate in East Chinatown is because it feels overshadowed by its bigger, flashier counterpart at Spadina/Dundas, as well as threatened by the T&T down the street in the Portlands.

 

[Marko]

I'm mixed on the overall result. The main negatives are that you don't really pass through the archway (as is custom) and that they had to go and put "Toronto Chinese Archway" in the most obtrusive way possible.

Really? I thought it was the Orlando Weather Station.

It's like those kids who drive a Cavalier and put a big "Powered by Chevy" sticker across their back window. Like anyone was confused into thinking it was Toyota powered... though they'd have sold more and lasted longer if that was actually the case.

 

[MetroMan]

I haven’t been able to find thread on the Spadina Chinatown gate that had been promised by John Tory during his re-election. A friend told me they saw it under construction. All I could find is that it was proposed for Spadina and Sullivan. Is it meant for that little square there?

 

[jje1000]

Does this count as Chinatown's current gate?

It's sort of metaphorical, but the thought counts!

Chinatown, Toronto - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I haven’t been able to find thread on the Spadina Chinatown gate that had been promised by John Tory during his re-election. A friend told me they saw it under construction. All I could find is that it was proposed for Spadina and Sullivan. Is it meant for that little square there?

It's actually not a bad spot for a traditional gate, and would really give the space a focal point- and maybe spur the revitalization of the complex (it's sort of downmarket atm).

That being said, it would would also probably assume that Chinatown Centre stays put for the conceivable future.

 

[AlbertC]

I haven’t been able to find thread on the Spadina Chinatown gate that had been promised by John Tory during his re-election. A friend told me they saw it under construction. All I could find is that it was proposed for Spadina and Sullivan. Is it meant for that little square there?

View attachment 233797

How substantial was your friend's claim to seeing it under construction? From my understanding, there isn't anything active being built to that degree.

There is a statue of Sun Yat Sen at that square outside of the Chinatown Centre, that was built within the last 5 years or so.

Otherwise, the other major pieces of public art commissioned for Chinatown was on Huron Street, north of Dundas. It was completed in 2018 and included seating, lighting pillars and sculptures.

Toronto is getting a new public square in the heart of Chinatown

The Chinatown Toronto BIA, in collaboration with the City of Toronto, has just announced the construction of a beautiful-sounding new public square...

www.blogto.com

 

[jje1000]

How substantial was your friend's claim to seeing it under construction? From my understanding, there isn't anything active being built to that degree.

There is a statue of Sun Yat Sen at that square outside of the Chinatown Centre, that was built within the last 5 years or so.

Otherwise, the other major pieces of public art commissioned for Chinatown was on Huron Street, north of Dundas. It was completed in 2018 and included seating, lighting pillars and sculptures.

Toronto is getting a new public square in the heart of Chinatown

The Chinatown Toronto BIA, in collaboration with the City of Toronto, has just announced the construction of a beautiful-sounding new public square...

www.blogto.com

The only reference I could find was in this NOW article:

This month, construction begins on Huron Square on the north side of Dundas West and Huron. The public space will feature traditional Chinese architecture as well as lanterns displaying animals from the Chinese zodiac. There will be a statue of a qilin, a mythical Asian creature that's part dragon, lion, fish and deer, meant to bring good luck. The $1.5 million project should be completed in time for Canada Day. Yu sees it as a valuable investment that's both an attraction for tourists and a place for Chinese elders to practise tai chi.

"We're trying to build up Chinatown with a symbol for the Chinese community," he says.

A traditional Chinatown welcome gate - similar to gates in Vancouver, Victoria and San Francisco - with a grand arch, ornamental columns and elaborately painted tiles is also in the works for Spadina at Sullivan. Yu is hopeful the $6 million it will cost can be raised so it can be built by 2018.

Toronto's changing Chinatown: who is it for? - NOW Magazine

As families unite in Chinatown to celebrate Lunar New Year's Eve and mark the arrival of the Year of the Rooster January 28, I'm reminded not only of the sounds and smells of home, but of who I am.

nowtoronto.com

 

[AlbertC]

The only reference I could find was in this NOW article:

Toronto's changing Chinatown: who is it for? - NOW Magazine

As families unite in Chinatown to celebrate Lunar New Year's Eve and mark the arrival of the Year of the Rooster January 28, I'm reminded not only of the sounds and smells of home, but of who I am.

nowtoronto.com

I passed by the area today and can verify that there is neither work being done outside of the Chinatown Centre or at Spadina & Sullivan.

Through the years, the concept of having a traditional gate in the central Chinatown has been sort of a loosely spun urban fable. One of those...nice to have, maybe someday...civic projects. But relatively accepted to be low priority due to either lack of funding and/or defined initiative.

Years ago I thought Huron Street was supposed to be the site if a gate were to be ever built. But they ended up having the public square and art installations there instead. Perhaps the plans for something to happen at Sullivan will come to fruition, maybe someday.

 

[jje1000]

Years ago I thought Huron Street was supposed to be the site if a gate were to be ever built. But they ended up having the public square and art installations there instead. Perhaps the plans for something to happen at Sullivan will come to fruition, maybe someday.

TBH, Huron isn't really an entrance to anything significant, except for some residential streets. The Chinatown Centre location is slightly better than a Huron location and would at least anchor a POP space, but again, the arrival would be somewhat anticlimatic considering the context.

I imagine gates across Spadina at College and maybe Sullivan would have the greatest effect (symbolizing the N-S entryways), or a gate across Dundas at Huron (symbolizing the eastern entryway coming from University Avenue). But those gates would be pretty expensive due to the clearance needed for the streetcars- the Chinatown BIA would probably be better off using the money for other issues.

I wonder if the Chinatown BIA might have an update on this subject?

 

[Johnny Au]

A paifang over Spadina at Sullivan would have to be large for streetcar clearance (and Spadina Avenue is very wide) and it would have to be larger and longer than the Friendship Archway paifang in Washington, DC, which is the largest outside China, and it has the longest single span for any paifangs in the world.

Friendship Archway paifang in Washington, DC's Chinatown.

In other words, such a paifang across Spadina Avenue would have to break records.

 

[AlbertC]

TBH, Huron isn't really an entrance to anything significant, except for some residential streets. The Sullivan St location is slightly better than a Huron location and would at least anchor a POP space, but again, the arrival would be somewhat anticlimatic considering the context.

I imagine gates across Spadina at College and maybe Sullivan would have the greatest effect (symbolizing the N-S entryways), or a gate across Dundas at Huron (symbolizing the eastern entryway coming from University Avenue). But those gates would be pretty expensive due to the clearance needed for the streetcars- the Chinatown BIA would probably be better off using the money for other issues.

I wonder if the Chinatown BIA might have an update on this subject?

I find having a gate right across Spadina to be unrealistic due to those reasons of budget, width of the street, and complexity of accommodating for the streetcar wiring. Plus the impact caused by construction and future maintenance over such a busy street. Dundas would work more easily being of more manageable width, although once again the streetcar also comes into play.

From the cities I've visited with notable Chinatown gates, I think Montreal has the best arrangement. The two gates along St. Laurent at both entrances into the area, along with the smaller gates along with the two smaller ones on the pedestrian only Rue De La Gauchetière. While other places like Ottawa, Philadelphia, Vancouver, Seattle and Portland have them on more conventionally situated streets.

I haven't checked with the BIA before but I could imagine this is well on the back burner.