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Chicken Coops?!
- Thread starter Whoaccio
- Start date
urbanfan89
Active Member
Funny that a lot of those posters here agree with Fidel Castro's central planning policies. In Cuba it is illegal to kill an animal you raise at home.
afransen
Senior Member
Right. You've got bigger problems if you think that the food supply is unreliable. Yes, yes... say something about BGH or Maple Leaf. I'm not at all convinced.
Most city lots have insufficient grass to raise anything but chickens (which would actually eat the insects). Sheep would decimate even a largish yard fairly quickly. Pigs root through grass and would rapidly destroy it (and would thus need to be fed grain or some other feed). They also need to be provided adequate shelter, which all has a cost and an environmental impact. Then you can talk about the cost in leisure from increased home production to feed, care for, and slaughter/dress.
This of course ignores any concerns arising from manure run-off contaminating the storm sewers and ground water.
In other words, large scale urban livestock isn't really anything more than a yuppy fantasy, like the '100 mile diet'.
SunriseChampion
Senior Member
Oh, no doubt, most city lots aren't big enough for most livestock. Wasn't saying that.
Chickens. Chickens.
Fully sustainable. I mean, it's been done in cities. It's being done, actually.
As for the unreliability of the food supply....I wasn't talking of disease but of growth hormones, pesticides, etc. Though, you're right, I DO have bigger problems.
Chickens. Chickens.
Fully sustainable. I mean, it's been done in cities. It's being done, actually.
As for the unreliability of the food supply....I wasn't talking of disease but of growth hormones, pesticides, etc. Though, you're right, I DO have bigger problems.
afransen
Senior Member
Bovine growth hormones are illegal in Canada, and pesticide residue is a fact of life, even for 'organic' production.
I guess I mean to say, does it cost <$10 to buy, feed, house, care for, slaughter and dress a chicken? Because my guess is that it costs more (in time/money) than what it would to buy such a chicken from the grocery store. Thus, it is a yuppy fantasy.
I think the concern about bird flu is worth considering, especially since home-raised poultry would certainly not have proper disease containment protocols and any disease would spread like wildfire through urban poultry populations.
I guess I mean to say, does it cost <$10 to buy, feed, house, care for, slaughter and dress a chicken? Because my guess is that it costs more (in time/money) than what it would to buy such a chicken from the grocery store. Thus, it is a yuppy fantasy.
I think the concern about bird flu is worth considering, especially since home-raised poultry would certainly not have proper disease containment protocols and any disease would spread like wildfire through urban poultry populations.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
When I visited Poland, I saw tethered (dairy) cows in the city eating the grass. Including highway intersections. No need for lawn mowers.
The anchor to the tether had enough rope or chain for the cow to walk around and is kept away from traffic. Every so often, someone would come over to move the anchor to a fresh circle of grass.
The anchor to the tether had enough rope or chain for the cow to walk around and is kept away from traffic. Every so often, someone would come over to move the anchor to a fresh circle of grass.
AKS
Senior Member
When I visited Poland, I saw tethered (dairy) cows in the city eating the grass. Including highway intersections. No need for lawn mowers.
The anchor to the tether had enough rope or chain for the cow to walk around and is kept away from traffic. Every so often, someone would come over to move the anchor to a fresh circle of grass.
wow!! free milk and lawn mowing. You wouldn't have to feed it either except in the winter. And you can use the dung for fertilizers.
SunriseChampion
Senior Member
I don't know what it takes to raise a chicken but I do know that cost is irrelevant in this equation. It is always best to do something yourself, for yourself than to rely on others to do it for you as long as you are capable of doing it.
Pesticide "residue" vs acute pesticide exposure: two different things, I'd think.
PS: Yuppies couldn't even pretend to farm. You meant hippie fantasy, right? Although, most of the hippies I've met are also kinda useless.
afransen
Senior Member
You should do everything yourself, yet you (I'm guessing, here) think cities are great? Cities are more or less the direct result of division of labour. The only real advantage of cities is that there is a high density of people who can thus become highly specialized. You get neurosurgeons, divorce lawyers, auto mechanics, retail clerks, garbage collectors, etc. etc. etc.
As recreation, fine. Have some chickens. It's no different than growing some broccoli or tomatoes in your garden. But don't delude yourself into thinking it makes you some urban survivalist.
I still have concern about proper disease management. Living in a city means agreeing to a social contract. If part of that contract is that poultry are only to be raised by experts due to the chance that deadly disease may be carried and spread to the human population, then you'll have to live with it. If you don't like it, move to a cabin in the woods with your chickens.
As recreation, fine. Have some chickens. It's no different than growing some broccoli or tomatoes in your garden. But don't delude yourself into thinking it makes you some urban survivalist.
I still have concern about proper disease management. Living in a city means agreeing to a social contract. If part of that contract is that poultry are only to be raised by experts due to the chance that deadly disease may be carried and spread to the human population, then you'll have to live with it. If you don't like it, move to a cabin in the woods with your chickens.
afransen
Senior Member
Oh, and strawman! You seem to be suggesting that 'acute pesticide exposure' is something that happens through our food supply as a matter of course. If you're concerned about it, there are lots of other things in cities that might kill you or make you ill. Like bird flu. Or listeriosis from improperly slaughtered and dressed home-reared chicken.
SunriseChampion
Senior Member
I did say it was only best to do things for yourself if you were capable of doing them.
Obviously, this caveat precludes most people from doing most things for themselves as a matter of course. I mean....I can build myself a house, I can do a bit of graphic design, I can write fiction, I can hunt, I can paint, I can drive, do menial labour and some more of this and that but I sure as hell can't pretend to diagnose medical problems, cook, play musical instruments, design buildings, engineer infrastructure, and so on.
Livestock being raised by "experts" has hardly kept disease from spreading to the human population in various outbreaks of various diseases associated with various different animals.
I ain't moving to no cabin. I'm an apartment block kinda guy....you won't see any chickens in my care any time soon, don't you worry. I'm just saying that some laws are meant to be broken due to their restrictive ridiculousness and I see this as one of those laws.
Obviously, this caveat precludes most people from doing most things for themselves as a matter of course. I mean....I can build myself a house, I can do a bit of graphic design, I can write fiction, I can hunt, I can paint, I can drive, do menial labour and some more of this and that but I sure as hell can't pretend to diagnose medical problems, cook, play musical instruments, design buildings, engineer infrastructure, and so on.
Livestock being raised by "experts" has hardly kept disease from spreading to the human population in various outbreaks of various diseases associated with various different animals.
I ain't moving to no cabin. I'm an apartment block kinda guy....you won't see any chickens in my care any time soon, don't you worry. I'm just saying that some laws are meant to be broken due to their restrictive ridiculousness and I see this as one of those laws.
SunriseChampion
Senior Member
I do know that produce is heavily-sprayed with pesticides that are known carcinogens....how much of that the average consumer is exposed to is homework for someone else.
I really don't know about these disease scares....I eat raw beef once in a while. I'm still here. Sure, Russian roulette, some would say.....nothing beats a good Tartar biftek, I would say.
And I think you meant to say: car accidents, gun shots, drinking too much. No?