Chicken Coops?!

[SunriseChampion]

I'm not sure people should be allowed to slaughter pigs themselves.

Overall, I'm not sure why people would want to raise their own livestock except as pseudo-pets. It sure isn't cost effective. If you're worried about environmental impact, there are farmers that will cater to that concern, at substantially lower cost.

The old harm-reduction for drug use adage, "Know your source.", sure as hell applies to food just as well, if you ask me. That's just one really, really good reason.

I'm not sure how you see it as not being cost-effective either. Livestock reproduces, making it a renewable source of energy and (most livestock) feeds on another renewable source of energy: grass!


On a somewhat related note: have any of you seen the horse that's kept in the heart of Scarborough? It's on a rather large property, just south of the Lakeshore East Line, east of Morningside.

 

[urbanfan89]

Funny that a lot of those posters here agree with Fidel Castro's central planning policies. In Cuba it is illegal to kill an animal you raise at home.

 

[afransen]

The old harm-reduction for drug use adage, "Know your source.", sure as hell applies to food just as well, if you ask me. That's just one really, really good reason.

Right. You've got bigger problems if you think that the food supply is unreliable. Yes, yes... say something about BGH or Maple Leaf. I'm not at all convinced.

I'm not sure how you see it as not being cost-effective either. Livestock reproduces, making it a renewable source of energy and (most livestock) feeds on another renewable source of energy: grass!

Most city lots have insufficient grass to raise anything but chickens (which would actually eat the insects). Sheep would decimate even a largish yard fairly quickly. Pigs root through grass and would rapidly destroy it (and would thus need to be fed grain or some other feed). They also need to be provided adequate shelter, which all has a cost and an environmental impact. Then you can talk about the cost in leisure from increased home production to feed, care for, and slaughter/dress.

This of course ignores any concerns arising from manure run-off contaminating the storm sewers and ground water.

In other words, large scale urban livestock isn't really anything more than a yuppy fantasy, like the '100 mile diet'.

 

[SunriseChampion]

Oh, no doubt, most city lots aren't big enough for most livestock. Wasn't saying that.

Chickens. Chickens.

Fully sustainable. I mean, it's been done in cities. It's being done, actually.


As for the unreliability of the food supply....I wasn't talking of disease but of growth hormones, pesticides, etc. Though, you're right, I DO have bigger problems.

 

[afransen]

Bovine growth hormones are illegal in Canada, and pesticide residue is a fact of life, even for 'organic' production.

I guess I mean to say, does it cost <$10 to buy, feed, house, care for, slaughter and dress a chicken? Because my guess is that it costs more (in time/money) than what it would to buy such a chicken from the grocery store. Thus, it is a yuppy fantasy.

I think the concern about bird flu is worth considering, especially since home-raised poultry would certainly not have proper disease containment protocols and any disease would spread like wildfire through urban poultry populations.

 

[W. K. Lis]

When I visited Poland, I saw tethered (dairy) cows in the city eating the grass. Including highway intersections. No need for lawn mowers.

The anchor to the tether had enough rope or chain for the cow to walk around and is kept away from traffic. Every so often, someone would come over to move the anchor to a fresh circle of grass.

 

[AKS]

When I visited Poland, I saw tethered (dairy) cows in the city eating the grass. Including highway intersections. No need for lawn mowers.

The anchor to the tether had enough rope or chain for the cow to walk around and is kept away from traffic. Every so often, someone would come over to move the anchor to a fresh circle of grass.

wow!! free milk and lawn mowing. You wouldn't have to feed it either except in the winter. And you can use the dung for fertilizers.

 

[SunriseChampion]

Bovine growth hormones are illegal in Canada, and pesticide residue is a fact of life, even for 'organic' production.

I guess I mean to say, does it cost <$10 to buy, feed, house, care for, slaughter and dress a chicken? Because my guess is that it costs more (in time/money) than what it would to buy such a chicken from the grocery store. Thus, it is a yuppy fantasy.

I don't know what it takes to raise a chicken but I do know that cost is irrelevant in this equation. It is always best to do something yourself, for yourself than to rely on others to do it for you as long as you are capable of doing it.

Pesticide "residue" vs acute pesticide exposure: two different things, I'd think.

PS: Yuppies couldn't even pretend to farm. You meant hippie fantasy, right? Although, most of the hippies I've met are also kinda useless.

 

[afransen]

You should do everything yourself, yet you (I'm guessing, here) think cities are great? Cities are more or less the direct result of division of labour. The only real advantage of cities is that there is a high density of people who can thus become highly specialized. You get neurosurgeons, divorce lawyers, auto mechanics, retail clerks, garbage collectors, etc. etc. etc.

As recreation, fine. Have some chickens. It's no different than growing some broccoli or tomatoes in your garden. But don't delude yourself into thinking it makes you some urban survivalist.

I still have concern about proper disease management. Living in a city means agreeing to a social contract. If part of that contract is that poultry are only to be raised by experts due to the chance that deadly disease may be carried and spread to the human population, then you'll have to live with it. If you don't like it, move to a cabin in the woods with your chickens.

 

[afransen]

Pesticide "residue" vs acute pesticide exposure: two different things, I'd think.

Oh, and strawman! You seem to be suggesting that 'acute pesticide exposure' is something that happens through our food supply as a matter of course. If you're concerned about it, there are lots of other things in cities that might kill you or make you ill. Like bird flu. Or listeriosis from improperly slaughtered and dressed home-reared chicken.

 

[SunriseChampion]

I did say it was only best to do things for yourself if you were capable of doing them.

Obviously, this caveat precludes most people from doing most things for themselves as a matter of course. I mean....I can build myself a house, I can do a bit of graphic design, I can write fiction, I can hunt, I can paint, I can drive, do menial labour and some more of this and that but I sure as hell can't pretend to diagnose medical problems, cook, play musical instruments, design buildings, engineer infrastructure, and so on.

Livestock being raised by "experts" has hardly kept disease from spreading to the human population in various outbreaks of various diseases associated with various different animals.

I ain't moving to no cabin. I'm an apartment block kinda guy....you won't see any chickens in my care any time soon, don't you worry. I'm just saying that some laws are meant to be broken due to their restrictive ridiculousness and I see this as one of those laws.

 

[SunriseChampion]

Oh, and strawman! You seem to be suggesting that 'acute pesticide exposure' is something that happens through our food supply as a matter of course. If you're concerned about it, there are lots of other things in cities that might kill you or make you ill. Like bird flu. Or listeriosis from improperly slaughtered and dressed home-reared chicken.

I do know that produce is heavily-sprayed with pesticides that are known carcinogens....how much of that the average consumer is exposed to is homework for someone else.

I really don't know about these disease scares....I eat raw beef once in a while. I'm still here. Sure, Russian roulette, some would say.....nothing beats a good Tartar biftek, I would say.

And I think you meant to say: car accidents, gun shots, drinking too much. No?