B
borgos
Guest
Re: chicago
For blues music, go to Kingston Mines
For blues music, go to Kingston Mines
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shawnmicallef
Guest
Re: chicago
We had a car in chicago, so drove to hyde park...if there are express busses, that's fine then.
lollapolooza....that explains it....they sucked up all the cheap stuff.
We had a car in chicago, so drove to hyde park...if there are express busses, that's fine then.
lollapolooza....that explains it....they sucked up all the cheap stuff.
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spmarshall
Guest
Re: chicago
Routes 2, 6, X28 run express via LSD, route 6 runs all day, every day. Route 10 transports tourists to the nearby Museum of Science and Technology.
And since Metra is $5/person for a Saturday and Sunday (if that's what you're going for), that makes Metra Electric a great bargain - only $1.25 each way if making two round trips, and it's unlimited trips on any line, but does not include CTA.
transitchicago.com/maps/bus/bus/2.pdf
transitchicago.com/maps/bus/bus/6.pdf
transitchicago.com/maps/bus/bus/X28.pdf
transitchicago.com/maps/bus/bus/10.pdf
Routes 2, 6, X28 run express via LSD, route 6 runs all day, every day. Route 10 transports tourists to the nearby Museum of Science and Technology.
And since Metra is $5/person for a Saturday and Sunday (if that's what you're going for), that makes Metra Electric a great bargain - only $1.25 each way if making two round trips, and it's unlimited trips on any line, but does not include CTA.
transitchicago.com/maps/bus/bus/2.pdf
transitchicago.com/maps/bus/bus/6.pdf
transitchicago.com/maps/bus/bus/X28.pdf
transitchicago.com/maps/bus/bus/10.pdf
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MetroMan1000
Guest
Re: chicago
Greatly appreciated spmarshall. I asked somebody in my class today who's also from Chicago and he said that as long as I stay near the Lakeshore, I won't be getting to any tough areas in South Chicago.
I think I'll be taking the Metra. Turns out this will be an incentive to walk around University of Chicago which I would have otherwise skipped.
Greatly appreciated spmarshall. I asked somebody in my class today who's also from Chicago and he said that as long as I stay near the Lakeshore, I won't be getting to any tough areas in South Chicago.
I think I'll be taking the Metra. Turns out this will be an incentive to walk around University of Chicago which I would have otherwise skipped.
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esplanade guy
Guest
Re: chicago
I was in Chicago last year (my first time there) and it was quite an eye-opener. The subways seem safe, north of the loop but if your white, you will not feel welcome in south Chicago. My boyfriend and I took the subway south to check out the south part of Chicago (not knowing anything about it) and we noticed a few stops south of the loop, that we were the only non-black people on the train. (my bf is Asian) We got off at the last stop and although there were over 100 people walking around or waiting for buses, we were the only ones who weren't black but we were cool with that. All eyes were on us as we went to a restaurant across the street. Our waitress asked us "are you guys looking for trouble" then advised us to head back to the loop. We just thought she was over reacting so didn't worry much until a few other people told us to get out of the neighbourhood or something bad would happen. With all the hostile/curious looks we got, we decided to take the advice and we left. My advice, stay out of South Chicago and the west side too.
I was told, when asking where the nearest subway was, "that in Chicago nobody takes the el, (subway) except for the riff-raff" and by and large, the subways were always empty and used mainly by people who appeared to be of lower incomes.
Oldtown and the area immediatly north of the Miricle Mile were quite nice, clean and safe. Lincon Park was quite nice also.
The downtown Loop, after 6pm was a ghost town. Actually, the streets of Chicago were very quiet, sometimes even deserted, after dark. People do not walk around Chicago. I found that so strange.
The Art Institute was GREAT! The Miricle Mile was great too! I was not so impressed with "boystown" which is, of course, the gay area. All the gay businesses are so spaced out, it didn't feel very gay at all. I was very disappointed with it and the nightlife in general, although people seemed friendly and approachable.
Of course, the architecture was AMAZING!!!
I was in Chicago last year (my first time there) and it was quite an eye-opener. The subways seem safe, north of the loop but if your white, you will not feel welcome in south Chicago. My boyfriend and I took the subway south to check out the south part of Chicago (not knowing anything about it) and we noticed a few stops south of the loop, that we were the only non-black people on the train. (my bf is Asian) We got off at the last stop and although there were over 100 people walking around or waiting for buses, we were the only ones who weren't black but we were cool with that. All eyes were on us as we went to a restaurant across the street. Our waitress asked us "are you guys looking for trouble" then advised us to head back to the loop. We just thought she was over reacting so didn't worry much until a few other people told us to get out of the neighbourhood or something bad would happen. With all the hostile/curious looks we got, we decided to take the advice and we left. My advice, stay out of South Chicago and the west side too.
I was told, when asking where the nearest subway was, "that in Chicago nobody takes the el, (subway) except for the riff-raff" and by and large, the subways were always empty and used mainly by people who appeared to be of lower incomes.
Oldtown and the area immediatly north of the Miricle Mile were quite nice, clean and safe. Lincon Park was quite nice also.
The downtown Loop, after 6pm was a ghost town. Actually, the streets of Chicago were very quiet, sometimes even deserted, after dark. People do not walk around Chicago. I found that so strange.
The Art Institute was GREAT! The Miricle Mile was great too! I was not so impressed with "boystown" which is, of course, the gay area. All the gay businesses are so spaced out, it didn't feel very gay at all. I was very disappointed with it and the nightlife in general, although people seemed friendly and approachable.
Of course, the architecture was AMAZING!!!
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spmarshall
Guest
Re: chicago
I did not find this to be true. Taking the Green line (Lake St) to Oak Park, it passes through some of the worst parts of the West Side, but since it also goes to Oak Park and Forest Park, there was a mix of people of different backgrounds. The entire Blue and Brown Lines are fine, the Red Line's fine from Sox-35th north. The area where the Pink Line passes is a mix, through Black West Side, then a Hispanic area, but a sprinkling of whites (like myself). I never felt uncomfortable once, and I took every line except Red and Green south of Roosevelt.
I did not find this to be true. Taking the Green line (Lake St) to Oak Park, it passes through some of the worst parts of the West Side, but since it also goes to Oak Park and Forest Park, there was a mix of people of different backgrounds. The entire Blue and Brown Lines are fine, the Red Line's fine from Sox-35th north. The area where the Pink Line passes is a mix, through Black West Side, then a Hispanic area, but a sprinkling of whites (like myself). I never felt uncomfortable once, and I took every line except Red and Green south of Roosevelt.
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esplanade guy
Guest
Re: chicago
I want you to go to 195th st. and Martain Luther King Bld and then say that. Trust me, I don't scare easilly but even I was afraid "something bad was going to happen" and it was quite clear we were not wanted in that area. (after being warned a number of times, within about 10 min) We are so lucky in Toronto, that people of all races can go or live wherever they please and not have to be segragated to miserable areas that go on for miles and miles. The contrast of the noth part of Chicago (all white) and the south part (black and latino) is very dramatic. We are so lucky!
I want you to go to 195th st. and Martain Luther King Bld and then say that. Trust me, I don't scare easilly but even I was afraid "something bad was going to happen" and it was quite clear we were not wanted in that area. (after being warned a number of times, within about 10 min) We are so lucky in Toronto, that people of all races can go or live wherever they please and not have to be segragated to miserable areas that go on for miles and miles. The contrast of the noth part of Chicago (all white) and the south part (black and latino) is very dramatic. We are so lucky!
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spmarshall
Guest
Re: chicago
I'm not debating you. I don't think I want to be alone, I'll pick 63rd and Cottage Grove as one place I think I'd not want to be, as I said, I stayed north of Roosevelt on those trains that pass through the worst part of the south side, but on the other lines, I found the demographics, especially but not just, weekdays, to be similar enough to the TTC.
I'm not debating you. I don't think I want to be alone, I'll pick 63rd and Cottage Grove as one place I think I'd not want to be, as I said, I stayed north of Roosevelt on those trains that pass through the worst part of the south side, but on the other lines, I found the demographics, especially but not just, weekdays, to be similar enough to the TTC.
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MetroMan1000
Guest
Re: chicago
I'm back
Chicago was a mix of what I expected it to be, what I feared it to be and a dash of little of the unexpected.
I was completely in awe of the architecture when walking along Michigan avenue past the river but when I decided to swerve off my path a little, the city quickly became degraded in just a matter of a couple of blocks.
I felt that Chicago had done a lot right downtown but that we could emulate major features of their success if we only try a little harder:
1 - Unified Street Furniture: The newspaper boxes do indeed make a difference by making the street look tidy and the bus stops, street poles, sidewalk gardens and benches all fit well together. I suspect Miller also noticed this and hence the genesis of his street furniture iniative.
2 - No postering. No litter!: WTF! I could not believe I was in an american city. I couldn't find a hint of postering on any street furniture and the sidewalks and roads were spotless. Keep in mind I'm talking about the groomed areas because once you get out of them you find the grit of Chicago. We need to implement anti-postering practices on Queen st which is now a mess with all the light posts, parking meters and the like full of messy postering.
2 - PARKS and public art: Millenium park was the highlight of my trip and was my headquarters since I changed accomodations 3 times during my 4 days there. Built upon a railroad corridor, this park engages the citizens of Chicago who come down here for a picnic, to listen to music, to appreciate the architecture and then head off to Crown Fountain for splashing in the water.
Kids loved the changing faces and the spitting water as did adults a like. Since it was Lollapolooza, concert goers leaving at night would stop by Crown Fountain and play in the water still wearing their clothes. There were easily 50 guys and girls playing (nicely) in the fountain. I loved it.
Toronto needs to commission more interesting public art like this. Crown fountain made our Dundas Square fountain and our Nathan Philips Sq. fountain look like something put together in a day.
We also have a rail corridor and something like Millennium Park would be an excellent solution to improving access and footsteps towards the waterfront.
One side note about Millennium Park: Millennium Metra Station is breathtaking. Designed in mostly glass and white colours with wavy Gehry-esque ceilings, this is easily one of the nicest rail station renos I've seen and GO @ Union Station should take note.
All in all, I liked Chicago, the architecture is just breathtaking in certain parts. Toronto could vastly improve by getting an architecture commission @ City Hall.
The EL was a nice touristy novelty but I agree that most people riding it seem like they were of lower income. Higher income people rode the bus. Having the subway above ground would likely be something I'd get tired of quickly and look at like our Gardiner. Plenty of grit underneith, creating noisy streets and a unliveable downtown.
I took plenty of photos and will get right on picking the best ones and posting them here.
I'm back
Chicago was a mix of what I expected it to be, what I feared it to be and a dash of little of the unexpected.
I was completely in awe of the architecture when walking along Michigan avenue past the river but when I decided to swerve off my path a little, the city quickly became degraded in just a matter of a couple of blocks.
I felt that Chicago had done a lot right downtown but that we could emulate major features of their success if we only try a little harder:
1 - Unified Street Furniture: The newspaper boxes do indeed make a difference by making the street look tidy and the bus stops, street poles, sidewalk gardens and benches all fit well together. I suspect Miller also noticed this and hence the genesis of his street furniture iniative.
2 - No postering. No litter!: WTF! I could not believe I was in an american city. I couldn't find a hint of postering on any street furniture and the sidewalks and roads were spotless. Keep in mind I'm talking about the groomed areas because once you get out of them you find the grit of Chicago. We need to implement anti-postering practices on Queen st which is now a mess with all the light posts, parking meters and the like full of messy postering.
2 - PARKS and public art: Millenium park was the highlight of my trip and was my headquarters since I changed accomodations 3 times during my 4 days there. Built upon a railroad corridor, this park engages the citizens of Chicago who come down here for a picnic, to listen to music, to appreciate the architecture and then head off to Crown Fountain for splashing in the water.
Kids loved the changing faces and the spitting water as did adults a like. Since it was Lollapolooza, concert goers leaving at night would stop by Crown Fountain and play in the water still wearing their clothes. There were easily 50 guys and girls playing (nicely) in the fountain. I loved it.
Toronto needs to commission more interesting public art like this. Crown fountain made our Dundas Square fountain and our Nathan Philips Sq. fountain look like something put together in a day.
We also have a rail corridor and something like Millennium Park would be an excellent solution to improving access and footsteps towards the waterfront.
One side note about Millennium Park: Millennium Metra Station is breathtaking. Designed in mostly glass and white colours with wavy Gehry-esque ceilings, this is easily one of the nicest rail station renos I've seen and GO @ Union Station should take note.
All in all, I liked Chicago, the architecture is just breathtaking in certain parts. Toronto could vastly improve by getting an architecture commission @ City Hall.
The EL was a nice touristy novelty but I agree that most people riding it seem like they were of lower income. Higher income people rode the bus. Having the subway above ground would likely be something I'd get tired of quickly and look at like our Gardiner. Plenty of grit underneith, creating noisy streets and a unliveable downtown.
I took plenty of photos and will get right on picking the best ones and posting them here.
M
MetroMan1000
Guest
Re: chicago
Something I found today:
Cloudgate, which is becoming Chicago's new most identifiable icon is designed by Anish Kapoor who also designed the mountains outside the CBC building on Front Street.
Cloudgate:
Untitled Mountains:
I'd love to see more work by this sculptor here in Toronto. Keep in mind though that building Cloudgate, a stainless steel bean shaped object cost over US$10M ... :eek
Something I found today:
Cloudgate, which is becoming Chicago's new most identifiable icon is designed by Anish Kapoor who also designed the mountains outside the CBC building on Front Street.
Cloudgate:
Untitled Mountains:
I'd love to see more work by this sculptor here in Toronto. Keep in mind though that building Cloudgate, a stainless steel bean shaped object cost over US$10M ... :eek
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esplanade guy
Guest
We could learn a few lessons from Chicago
Chicago has some really wonderful things and Toronto could learn a few lessons from them but over all, as a cpmplete city, I was disappointed. The nice parts are really nice but the bad parts are totally neglected. How can you justify spending so much money in tourist/wealthy neighbourhoods, yet let the really needy neighbourhoods rot. Driving in the south part, you will see streets with 10 or more boarded up, abandoned buildings. I just can't imagine what life is like in Chicago for the average black or Latino person, when there are so few decent neighbourhoods where you can live. That for me is a huge black mark on Chicago. I also hated the El. Thank god we never built those overhead trains like in NYC and Chicago because nothing destroys a street like that does. It would be like having the Gardiner surrounding all of downtown Toronto. YIKES! Outside of the central core and a few neighbourhoods in the north, Chicago was not very interesting at all or even multi-cultural.
What Chicago could teach us, is more about taking risks with bold architecture and design, not cheaping out or compromising buildings, raising money/donations from the leisure class, getting things done in a reasonable time, preserving historic buildings, not being intimidated by NIMBYS who seem to control many of out politicians, cleaning up our unsightly beaches and building a REAL Gehry building. (the AGO is not a Gehry, it's just plain boaring!) Oh, also the art! I was impressed with all the great public art and fountains in the central core. PICASO, oh yeah!!! We need some seriously beautiful/artistic fountains in Toronto. The ones we have are so uninspiring.
Chicago has some really wonderful things and Toronto could learn a few lessons from them but over all, as a cpmplete city, I was disappointed. The nice parts are really nice but the bad parts are totally neglected. How can you justify spending so much money in tourist/wealthy neighbourhoods, yet let the really needy neighbourhoods rot. Driving in the south part, you will see streets with 10 or more boarded up, abandoned buildings. I just can't imagine what life is like in Chicago for the average black or Latino person, when there are so few decent neighbourhoods where you can live. That for me is a huge black mark on Chicago. I also hated the El. Thank god we never built those overhead trains like in NYC and Chicago because nothing destroys a street like that does. It would be like having the Gardiner surrounding all of downtown Toronto. YIKES! Outside of the central core and a few neighbourhoods in the north, Chicago was not very interesting at all or even multi-cultural.
What Chicago could teach us, is more about taking risks with bold architecture and design, not cheaping out or compromising buildings, raising money/donations from the leisure class, getting things done in a reasonable time, preserving historic buildings, not being intimidated by NIMBYS who seem to control many of out politicians, cleaning up our unsightly beaches and building a REAL Gehry building. (the AGO is not a Gehry, it's just plain boaring!) Oh, also the art! I was impressed with all the great public art and fountains in the central core. PICASO, oh yeah!!! We need some seriously beautiful/artistic fountains in Toronto. The ones we have are so uninspiring.
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MetroMan1000
Guest
Re: We could learn a few lessons from Chicago
^^ I agree with everything you said with the exception about AGO vis-a-vis "real Gehry".
Gehry's work is deeper than ribbon like titanium scales everywhere. The details going towards the AGO will be what makes AGO a success. The organic stairs (2 of them outside facing Grange Park and 1 inside), the ceilings, the use of wood in organic shapes and the layout of the museum will all be worth visiting and will provide for the eye candy that you seem to desire.
I have to say I wasn't all that too impressed with the Pritzker Pavillion @ Millenium Park. It seemed cheapened out since you could see the supporting structures behind the metallic panels. The building itself was made of corrugated aluminum, something I'm sure we'd complain about here in Toronto as not "world class enough".
What impressed me about Millenium Park was the whole package: Gehry's bridge was breathtaking. Crown Fountain was the best feature in my opinion because it was interactive and brought people down to the park. I also liked the overhead mesh with the speakers and the grand lawn was a nice place to sit and people watch.
Overall, I was glad to be back in Toronto but learned some lessons from Chicago. As I walked around downtown Toronto after getting off the plane, I could spot so many good examples of architecture and buildings of historical value. They're not all so clustered together like in Chicago, perhaps that's what gives Chicago that oooh-ahhh sensation.
^^ I agree with everything you said with the exception about AGO vis-a-vis "real Gehry".
Gehry's work is deeper than ribbon like titanium scales everywhere. The details going towards the AGO will be what makes AGO a success. The organic stairs (2 of them outside facing Grange Park and 1 inside), the ceilings, the use of wood in organic shapes and the layout of the museum will all be worth visiting and will provide for the eye candy that you seem to desire.
I have to say I wasn't all that too impressed with the Pritzker Pavillion @ Millenium Park. It seemed cheapened out since you could see the supporting structures behind the metallic panels. The building itself was made of corrugated aluminum, something I'm sure we'd complain about here in Toronto as not "world class enough".
What impressed me about Millenium Park was the whole package: Gehry's bridge was breathtaking. Crown Fountain was the best feature in my opinion because it was interactive and brought people down to the park. I also liked the overhead mesh with the speakers and the grand lawn was a nice place to sit and people watch.
Overall, I was glad to be back in Toronto but learned some lessons from Chicago. As I walked around downtown Toronto after getting off the plane, I could spot so many good examples of architecture and buildings of historical value. They're not all so clustered together like in Chicago, perhaps that's what gives Chicago that oooh-ahhh sensation.
E
esplanade guy
Guest
The new AGO is not a real Gehry
I need that WOW factor. The new AGO was a complete disappointment for me be because I love what Gehry has done before with all the swirling, unconventional buildings. I was so excited to get a real Gehry building, finally, but I got totally depressed when I saw the final design. I don't want all the details inside, I want the outside to make a bold statement. I think the only statement that the new AGO will make, is Canadians really like hockey arens because that's what it looks like to me. (Not an almost "world class" museum)
I don't understand the purpose of getting Gehry to design a major art gallery in Toronto, only to have it turn out looking ordinary and conventional. Isn't Gehry all about the wow factor? Only Toronto would do something pointless like that AND YEAH, I'M PISSED!!!!>: >: >:
I need that WOW factor. The new AGO was a complete disappointment for me be because I love what Gehry has done before with all the swirling, unconventional buildings. I was so excited to get a real Gehry building, finally, but I got totally depressed when I saw the final design. I don't want all the details inside, I want the outside to make a bold statement. I think the only statement that the new AGO will make, is Canadians really like hockey arens because that's what it looks like to me. (Not an almost "world class" museum)
I don't understand the purpose of getting Gehry to design a major art gallery in Toronto, only to have it turn out looking ordinary and conventional. Isn't Gehry all about the wow factor? Only Toronto would do something pointless like that AND YEAH, I'M PISSED!!!!>: >: >:
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SD2
Guest
Re: The new AGO is not a real Gehry
What's on the inside is more important than the outside. That said, I agree they shouldn't have bothered with Gehry if he was going to be overly restricted.
What's on the inside is more important than the outside. That said, I agree they shouldn't have bothered with Gehry if he was going to be overly restricted.
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MetroMan1000
Guest
Re: The new AGO is not a real Gehry
I'm glad everybody's so underwhelmed because everybody's going to be very impressed and surprised with the final result since their expectations are so low.
This is one project that will turn out better than the rendering because the rendering can't communicate the feeling of walking through a Gehry building.
Those of you who've seen his work in person probably know what I mean. It is turning a corner and being surprised by the minute details, it is sitting and looking around to discover how all these details bring about something bigger.
As I said about Chicago, if Milennium Park were only the Pritzker Pavilion, I would have been very disappointed with having traveled all the way to Chicago to see that. Millennium Park is so much more and so all those pieces come together to produce an excellent experience.
I look forward to seeing the AGO go from demolition to actual construction.
EDIT: I forgot to mention that there's been whispers that Gehry will design upgrades to Grange Park. Many of you will remember that the neighbors agreed to stop opposing the AGO reno if the art gallery funded improvements to Grange Park.
I was impressed with what was done @ Millennium Park, I can only imagine what Gehry will do to Grange Park: a metallic fish scales wading pool, a grand entry gate, a fish sculpture, etc are what come to mind if Gehry were to preserve the intimate feeling of Grange park but still add his touch to it.
I'm glad everybody's so underwhelmed because everybody's going to be very impressed and surprised with the final result since their expectations are so low.
This is one project that will turn out better than the rendering because the rendering can't communicate the feeling of walking through a Gehry building.
Those of you who've seen his work in person probably know what I mean. It is turning a corner and being surprised by the minute details, it is sitting and looking around to discover how all these details bring about something bigger.
As I said about Chicago, if Milennium Park were only the Pritzker Pavilion, I would have been very disappointed with having traveled all the way to Chicago to see that. Millennium Park is so much more and so all those pieces come together to produce an excellent experience.
I look forward to seeing the AGO go from demolition to actual construction.
EDIT: I forgot to mention that there's been whispers that Gehry will design upgrades to Grange Park. Many of you will remember that the neighbors agreed to stop opposing the AGO reno if the art gallery funded improvements to Grange Park.
I was impressed with what was done @ Millennium Park, I can only imagine what Gehry will do to Grange Park: a metallic fish scales wading pool, a grand entry gate, a fish sculpture, etc are what come to mind if Gehry were to preserve the intimate feeling of Grange park but still add his touch to it.