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CBC: Toronto Skyline Before and After

ksun said:
I don't want Toronto to be like Manhattan. I just feel sorry that much of our prime downtown land is not be used efficiently and many building are not maintained well. I only wish with more midrises and less low rises downtown, we achieve higher and optimal density and more vibrancy.



I definitely agree with you that much of down outside the financial district looks a lot like Queens. Very much so!
The link you provided are nice, and I do see them on Yonge st between College and Bloor too. Unfortunately they are not consistent and continuous. A few steps away from what you showed, we have this

http://goo.gl/maps/sKcTQ

Same happens to Yonge st (that 501 Yonge site for example). I just don't agree with people who seem to deny the problem and instead claims such diversity (euphemism for having many ugly bui makes downtown more interesting. I at least want to the build form along Yonge and Queen to be more consistent in high and built form. King East is a fantastic example of what they can be if things are done right.
Click to expand...

OK, interesting that you like the link I provided, I would've thought you wouldn't like it since it's only 3 stories. It sounds like it's more that you'd like a consistent street wall without gaps right?

So, looking at the link you provided, is it the Browns building that you don't like? Is it because the buildings on either side are 3 stories, but it's only 1 story? Is the gap on the right of it also something you don't like?

I agree with you that some buildings are very badly maintained. When you say King East, you mean the St. Lawrence Market neighbourhood right? I agree that it's great, and beautiful to me. One of the things I like most about it, and other parts of Toronto, is that it mixes old and new buildings together. I also like the Distillery District for that, as well as most parts of downtown.

I find the idea of what constitutes beauty in a city interesting. I think we'd all agree that Paris is very classically beautiful and very consistent (with some exceptions of course).
New York on the other hand, I don't think is classically beautiful like Paris.

For example, for me some defining characteristics of New York are:
-fire escapes (external stairways) on buildings
-water towers on top of buildings
-steam coming up from the ground vents
-very cramped, ugly, dirty, and utilitarian subway stations
-the sound of constant honking (at least in Manhattan)
-elevated subways in Brooklyn & Queens
None of the above are really pleasant or beautiful things. But we still love them because we've seen them in tons of movies, music, TV shows etc. It's part of the gritty character of New York that we all love, and even though they are gritty & sometimes ugly, they make New York what it is.
We all have the iconic image of a graffiti-covered subway running on a metallic elevated structure through gritty Queens.

Similarly, there are things in Toronto which to me, make Toronto what it is and I love:
-Victorian/Edwardian houses near glass high-rises, the idea of low-rise mixed with high-rise
-50's-70's apartment buildings, they are ugly yes but they are essential to our city
-The graffiti & messiness of downtown, like at Kensington Market
-Streetcars, regardless of how effective they are, if you think of a Toronto street, you think of streetcars. This is fairly unique in North America.
-Red & yellow brick buildings
-Bay & Gable houses
-The messiness of overhanging wires from streetcars & hydro lines. I know this is the reason we're having power outages and I know many people hate this, but to me it's a characteristic I think of when I think of Toronto. I personally think it looks cool, believe it or not :)
 
^ yes, you are right that more consistent street walls make a city much more pleasing, without the constant gaps (as parking lots) and random one story slab stuck in between. In terms of height, I feel anything more than 3 stories look a lot urban and nicer than 1-2 stories, with the optimal being 4-6 stories high on narrower streets (such as Queen) and 6-10 on wider ones (such as Jarvis). They look appropriately of human scale without appearing suburban-ish as 1-2 storey houses do. Rosedale and Forest Hill have all the beautiful houses, but they are just upscale suburbs with good locations.

Downtown Queen East in general is not pretty but this stretch is very nice - consistent colour and height, nice windows, well maintained.
http://goo.gl/maps/mu7Tv

But just on the other side of street, we have this http://goo.gl/maps/osiq1
and this http://goo.gl/maps/yRNr4

Can anyone honestly say the latter two are "interesting" or are an essential part of our city? Why do we find Paris pretty? Besides all its stunningly beautiful architects and landmarks, most buildings are more like those in the first link in a consistent way.

I completely agree with you that all those features make New York attractive (not necessarily all pretty), and I like all that you mention for Toronto as well, but I still hold building consistency very high - diversity makes it interesting, but if you throw buildings of completely different sized, height and form randomly everywhere in the city, it creates a messy image. There should be a limit of the messiness. One Pompidou museum is fine, if there are a 100 of them in Paris, that's simply ugly.

An elegant street of consistent architecture in Boston - what makes it nice is not just the design of the buildings itself, but the fact they are all of similar height and they are all taller than 3 stories. If most are 2 stories, it just looks like a nice gentrified suburb without the urban sophistication.
http://goo.gl/maps/g1AZf
 
ksun said:
Can anyone honestly say the latter two are "interesting" or are an essential part of our city?
Click to expand...

Yes, honestly, that last one you posted is both interesting and actually very attractive to me, believe it or not :). That building with "Richard Bigley" is actually beautiful. The 2nd last one, the pawn shop is ugly, but the church behind it has a nice Gothic roof.

To be honest though ksun, if consistency is important to you, Toronto is probably the worst city to be in. It's actually known for being inconsistent, it terms of height and form. Toronto is known to have a mix of styles & forms. Personally I love it, and I wouldn't want to live anywhere else, but I think you might be happier with a European city like Paris.

The main reason Boston looks like that is because it was one of the earliest cities Europeans settled in in NA, notice the streets are narrow and arranged in a European way. I don't think Toronto will ever look like that. However in many parts of Boston, you'll find row-housing, then low-rise detached housing as well.

One of the reasons Toronto looks the way it does is because it was a fairly small city for a while (Montreal was the biggest in Canada), and only recently began a big population boom, so you get mostly low-rise with some tall towers.
 
ehlow said:
but I think you might be happier with a European city like Paris.
Click to expand...

haha. I wish I had the means to! Paris is my favourable city among the ones I have visited, followed by Barcelona.

Well, living is more than having beautiful streets and buildings.

Incidentally I came across this, Bird's view of world's cities. Very interesting. It doesn't have Toronto, but we would look more like Chicago I guess.
http://www.boredpanda.com/birds-eye...buffer&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Buffer
 
ksun said:
haha. I wish I had the means to! Paris is my favourable city among the ones I have visited, followed by Barcelona.

Well, living is more than having beautiful streets and buildings.

Incidentally I came across this, Bird's view of world's cities. Very interesting. It doesn't have Toronto, but we would look more like Chicago I guess.
http://www.boredpanda.com/birds-eye...buffer&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Buffer
Click to expand...

My favourite city to visit was probably NYC, although I also like Montreal. Oh yeah, one thing I noticed about NYC was that, just like Toronto, many things are badly maintained. For example the sidewalks are cracked & dirty and patched up haphazardly, even in Manhattan. That ugly pawn shop you posted above, you can find places like that all over NYC.
NYC has amazing public spaces like this one at the Flatiron building:
http://goo.gl/maps/FsSyu
I loved sitting there. We could definitely use more here.

On the other hand, in places like Paris & Copenhagen, everything is kept in amazingly clean & good condition. It seems like every tree & streetlight & bridge is designed & maintained perfectly.

Anyways I get your point that some buildings should be better maintained, and some should be replaced with better ones. I think we'll see improvement as more and more people live downtown. One thing that's true is that Toronto is one of the fastest changing cities. It's very different than it was 10 years ago, and it'll probably be even more different in 10 years, one of the reasons it's exciting to live here.
 
For most I don't think it's the density they are opposed to but rather the buildings themselves.

Glass box after glass box in these McDevelopments that lack both scale and warmth. The people are there but the sense of community isn't. These are places you have to "walk thru" to get to the places you want to be as they have nothing of interest to offer. The city has also worked forever on trying to bring the Waterfront to the city and then are doing everything in it's power to cut it off with isolating 80 story glass boxes.

Toronto has a wonderful array of new midrises going up downtown with interesting architecture and add to the sense of community and warmth............they compliment the area as opposed to overwhelm it.
 
New York City and Toronto observations/comparisons...

Posted by Ehlow: New York on the other hand, I don't think is classically beautiful like Paris.

For example, for me some defining characteristics of New York are:
-fire escapes (external stairways) on buildings
-water towers on top of buildings
-steam coming up from the ground vents
-very cramped, ugly, dirty, and utilitarian subway stations
-the sound of constant honking (at least in Manhattan)
-elevated subways in Brooklyn & Queens
None of the above are really pleasant or beautiful things. But we still love them because we've seen them in tons of movies, music, TV shows etc. It's part of the gritty character of New York that we all love, and even though they are gritty & sometimes ugly, they make New York what it is.
We all have the iconic image of a graffiti-covered subway running on a metallic elevated structure through gritty Queens.

Ehlow: I will add these observations of my own here about New York City in comparison with yours:

Water towers on top of buildings in some form-a NYC requirement for most if not all residential buildings...
Steam from vents - Many Manhattan buildings receive their heat from Con Edison's City steam lines...
Subway stations - Manhattan's Subway stations/routes date from before 1940 when the 6th Avenue Line began service...
Traffic - despite large fines of $200 or more against unnecessary horn honking it is hard to enforce this law...
Elevated NYCT lines are mainly in parts of Brooklyn,The Bronx and Queens but also include some upper Manhattan routes
like the #1 train...The "Iconic Image" that you note is actually a 70s era graffiti-covered train on one of the Bronx or Brooklyn routes...
The J train from the Williamsburg Bridge to Jamaica would fit the bill of your thought because of it serving mostly marginal neighborhoods...
Queens is also served by the elevated N to Astoria,the #7 to Flushing and the A to Lefferts Boulevard in Ozone Park...

Posted by Ehlow: Similarly, there are things in Toronto which to me, make Toronto what it is and I love:
-Victorian/Edwardian houses near glass high-rises, the idea of low-rise mixed with high-rise
-50's-70's apartment buildings, they are ugly yes but they are essential to our city
-The graffiti & messiness of downtown, like at Kensington Market
-Streetcars, regardless of how effective they are, if you think of a Toronto street, you think of streetcars. This is fairly unique in North America.
-Red & yellow brick buildings
-Bay & Gable houses
-The messiness of overhanging wires from streetcars & hydro lines. I know this is the reason we're having power outages and I know many people hate this, but to me it's a characteristic I think of when I think of Toronto. I personally think it looks cool, believe it or not...

I happen to agree with much of your Toronto observations but noting graffiti many of my Toronto memories are from the decade of the 1980s in which for the most part graffiti was rare in Toronto - that changed in the 90s...

LI MIKE
 
Last edited:
OLD Toronto:

postcard-toronto-skyline-from-lake-twilight-late-1960s-td-centre-not-finished.jpg


Shares a striking resemblance to modern buffalo (not a good thing!):

87353680.k0VjH2SL.BuffaloSkyline_69105.jpg


Current Toronto:
8930591123_e065143f64_h-image-flickr.jpg


toronto-skyline-march-2013.jpg


I'm sorry but I'll take our current skyline thank you very much. I think we can do better than Buffalo :)
 
It's insane how fast the skyline is growing. When I took a pictures from Polson st in the port lands a few months ago, I noticed the new ice buildings right beside the CN tower really made an impact, same with the L tower. Of course if you look at photos 10 years ago, there's way less.

http://www.blogto.com/city/2010/08/the_transformation_of_torontos_skyline_from_1880_to_today/
Take a look at the "modern" photo there from 2010. It already looks smaller than a current picture.

If you look at the skyline throughout history, it really shows that Toronto was a small city early on, and has only recently exploded in population. Imagine how it'll be like in 10 years.
 
Oh yeah, one of my favourite experiences through the downtown core was biking through during Ride For Heart. It's a surreal experience biking among a forest of towers on the Gardiner. It made me wish there were bike/jogging/walking lanes on there (beside or on top, I don't know). Imagine being able to walk through all those skyscrapers any time like either the High Line or the Brooklyn Bridge.
 
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