CBC projects Conservative government

[kEiThZ]

reminder:

"The state should take a more activist role in policing social norms and values, Harper told the assembled conservatives. To achieve this goal, social and economic conservatives must reunite as they have in the U.S., where evangelical Christians and business rule in an unholy alliance. Red Tories must be jettisoned from the party, he said, and alliances forged with ethnic and immigrant communities who currently vote Liberal but espouse traditional family values. This was the successful strategy counselled by the neocons under Ronald Reagan to pull conservative Democrats into the Republican tent.

Movement towards the goal must be "incremental," he said, so the public won't be spooked."

Can you put a date on that comment? Otherwise, it's equally fair to suggest that Ignatieff still supports the Iraq war.

He also said he didn't like universal health care a decade ago. And yet the recent budget included annually increases of 6% for health and social transfers and Harper has publicly defended universal health care as a PM. Some nutters in the Reform party didn't like immigration. Yet, it was Harper who defended multi-culturalism during the debates and who's government has overseen some rather robust levels of immigration, even during a downturn.

I didn't vote the guy. But I am fully willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and not keep judging him based on one-liners from decades ago. People change. We'll now have 4 years to judge the man by his actions. Let's see how far this social agenda apparently goes. If you're right, Canadians will turf him in 2015. And it might well take a decades for the Conservatives to recover. But I am betting that you won't be right.

Finally, the more this kind of FUD is thrown around, the more shrill and desperate it makes the left look. This is exactly why the Liberals didn't win. They ran like it was 1993. Harper is militaristic. Harper is anti-health care. Blah blah blah. The public is just not buying it anymore. The Liberals better come up with something more than, "The Conservatives are scary and you better vote for us." if they are to survive.

 

[jeff316]

OH Bull.

Yes, all parties run warm body candidates....I fear for the state of our democracy when MPs can get elected without even showing up (this is as true for Alberta as it is for Quebec by the way).

Agreed - my point exactly. So then why is the media only talking about one of them?

 

[Tewder]

reminder:

"The state should take a more activist role in policing social norms and values, Harper told the assembled conservatives. To achieve this goal, social and economic conservatives must reunite as they have in the U.S., where evangelical Christians and business rule in an unholy alliance. Red Tories must be jettisoned from the party, he said, and alliances forged with ethnic and immigrant communities who currently vote Liberal but espouse traditional family values. This was the successful strategy counselled by the neocons under Ronald Reagan to pull conservative Democrats into the Republican tent.

Movement towards the goal must be "incremental," he said, so the public won't be spooked."

Grey, your posting of that quote is a little disingenuous. I can't tell what are Harper's words or yours. Can you post a link please, and some context? Thank you.

 

[Mongo]

Agreed - my point exactly. So then why is the media only talking about one of them?

Because she actually got elected? Those Liberal candidates in Alberta who did the same thing did not get elected, and therefore do not come under the same scrutiny (not to single them out, all the parties do the same thing in ridings they consider no-hopers).

But as to why she in particular was singled out, as opposed to the other "warm bodies" that were elected in Quebec? I think that she was a perfect storm of failings -- the Vegas trip, the non-French-speaking, the parachuting into the riding, the "single mother of two" thing (you can bet that a lot of people are thinking uncomplimentary thoughts about that situation) -- which combine with her physical attractiveness (which always brings more attention to a woman) to make her a poster child of what was wrong with this practice. Naturally, the other parties are going to town with this, never mind that they all do much the same thing themselves.

 

[kEiThZ]

Agreed - my point exactly. So then why is the media only talking about one of them?

Because it's quite egregious. She didn't visit the riding at all. She doesn't even live close by. She's a 3 hr drive away. And her French is so bad, she's scared to hold a victory press conference. At least that 19 year old kid can talk to his constitutents. She might allegedly need a translator. Even as a supposed parachute candidate, she's terrible.

But like I said, the real fault lies with her constituents. This is the info they had about her:

http://ruthellenbrosseau.ndp.ca/

And they still voted for her! WOW.

 

[Mongo]

Why voters elected the NDP’s ‘Vegas girl’ anyway

The fact NDP candidate Ruth Ellen Brousseau was “shaking dice rather than shaking hands” did not concern voters, according to a new post-election analysis. Rather it is the party leader Canadians vote for, not the local candidate.

<snip>

The exit poll analysis found that everyone knew about the NDP’s so-called “Vegas girl.” Indeed, Ms. Brosseau won office even though it was well-publicized that she barely spoke French, that she had spent little time during the election in her Quebec riding and that she went to Vegas on holiday.

“Participants told us they see this as proof that Canadians voted based on parties and leaders rather than their local candidate,” Ensight’s Jacquie LaRocque told The Globe. “Hardly a single participant across the entire country told us they voted for their local candidate.”

******

In other words, the voters in her riding wanted to vote NDP -- as is their right -- and did not let any concerns about who the local candidate was, override that choice. They knew about her issues, and decided that having an NDP representative was more important (perhaps deciding that she would be a backbencher anyways, regardless of her qualifications).

 

[jeff316]

...as opposed to the other "warm bodies" that were elected in Quebec? I think that she was a perfect storm of failings -- the Vegas trip, the non-French-speaking, the parachuting into the riding, the "single mother of two" thing (you can bet that a lot of people are thinking uncomplimentary thoughts about that situation) -- which combine with her physical attractiveness (which always brings more attention to a woman) to make her a poster child of what was wrong with this practice. Naturally, the other parties are going to town with this, never mind that they all do much the same thing themselves.

Bingo.

Part of it is the silence, too. I heard the 19-year old interviewed (in French) and he was actually pretty articulate. Much better than I would have been at 19 (or now! haha).

He may be the benefit of the sweep but he could end up being pretty decent. Maybe he'll be like that other 'pilon' from Sherbrooke (aka Jean Charest).

 

[Eug]

Hmmm... The single mother of two part certainly wasn't highlighted in the media, and I didn't consider that a problem either.

The reason everyone in the media was talking about it long before she was even elected was... as I said earlier... was because she was vacationing in Vegas right in the middle of the campaign. Furthermore, they interviewed her boss in the pub and he said it couldn't be her because she wasn't running, and had never, ever mentioned anything about running or even politics in the years they worked together.

Until last week, she'd been working in Ottawa – about three hours away from the riding – as an assistant manager of Oliver's Pub, on the Carleton University campus.

And this week?

“She’s actually in Las Vegas,” says her boss, Rod Castro. When first asked about Ms. Brosseau’s candidacy, Mr. Castro told The Globe and Mail that there must be a mistake. But after looking her up online, he confirmed the candidate and his colleague are one and the same.

“This is all news to me,” he said, noting that she has never mentioned politics in the more than two years they have worked together as the bar’s only two full-time staff members.

 

[grey]

Can you post a link please, and some context? Thank you.

You can find it using google. It's heavily discussed.

I see Brousseau is still stealing thunder from Bev Oda, even right here.

 

[Tewder]

I'm afraid I have to call you out on this Grey. Your citation isn't even a Harper quote, it is by a Donald Gutstein! and the sources that quote Gutstein would hardly be called unbiased either, by the way!

Really, this kind of thing completely and utterly tarnishes any valid criticism of Harper and the Conservatives, and lets call it for what it is: blind partisanship. Bah! I get you don't like Harper but this kind of dissembling does no good for Canada, for Canadians or for legitimate political discourse in this country.... and it strikes me as ironic that those who would claim to loath American values are so quick to resort to this kind of American spin/sleight of hand.

 

[Eug]

it strikes me as ironic that those who would claim to loath American values are so quick to resort to this kind of American spin/sleight of hand.

This is not an American thing. This is a bad politics thing, American, Canadian, or otherwise.

Don't blame the Americans in general when that blame is not due.

 

[Tewder]

I'm not blaming Americans for anything, but only to say that they have been particularly innovative in this type of political spin.... but yes, it is just bad politics all around.

 

[Peepers]

Can you put a date on that comment? Otherwise, it's equally fair to suggest that Ignatieff still supports the Iraq war.

This is from a 2003 speech that Harper gave to the secretive right-wing think-tank "CIVITAS" which was co-founded by his minister of immigration Jason Kenney. I don't doubt that Harper still holds the beliefs that he expressed back then in fact he perfectly followed the strategy laid out by building alliances with ethnic and immigrant communities "who currently vote Liberal but espouse traditional family values". This was key to their victory.

Now that Harper has a majority and absolute power we will find out what he meant when he said that "the state should take a more activist role in policing social norms and values"

 

[grey]

Yes, but it's paraphrased by a Known Liberal, so we mustn't pay attention! We ought to take the high ground and ignore such things!

 

[Tewder]

This is from a 2003 speech that Harper gave to the secretive right-wing think-tank "CIVITAS" which was co-founded by his minister of immigration Jason Kenney.

Gee, like 8 years ago when he was hatching his dastardly plot:

I don't doubt that Harper still holds the beliefs that he expressed back then in fact he perfectly followed the strategy laid out by building alliances with ethnic and immigrant communities "who currently vote Liberal but espouse traditional family values". This was key to their victory.

They campaigned to groups that were likely to vote for them. You find that to be nefarious?