Canadian Highway Fantasy Thread

[ShonTron]

I wrote at length about the TCH numbering system (or lack of) elsewhere.

The TCH was a 1950s project to complete a high-quality paved route across all ten provinces, with federal funding allocated to completing these links.

In Ontario, Quebec, and the Maritime Provinces, there was already a complete, paved highway. In fact, there was an interprovincial highway with the same number all the way from Windsor, Ontario to Halifax, Nova Scotia – Highway 2. Ontario had just completed a paved highway link to Manitoba as well, but it required going via North Bay and Cochrane on Highway 11 as Highway 17 wasn’t completed yet.

Sections of Highway 1 already existed in BC and the Prairies and were slowly coming together as a single highway. So you had two distinct highway numbers for a through eastern route and a distinct western route, with the enormity of Northern Ontario separating them.

Since the eastern provinces had their highways completed – with Ontario and Quebec focused on building new freeways and Autoroutes – TCH money went towards building new bypasses and new, more direct routes. In New Brunswick, for example, Highway 2 was rerouted away from Saint John to avoid a much more winding alignment. In Ontario, Highway 17 along Lake Superior and Highway 69 along Georgian Bay were completed, with new bypasses built along the TCH branches in places like North Bay, Pembroke, Lindsay, Peterborough, Orillia, Hawkesbury, etc, and the Queensway built through Ottawa.

In the 1960s-1970s, of course, Québec completely renumbered its highways, eliminating Highway 2 there, and in Nova Scotia, a new series of highways mostly superseded its older routes, though those still exist. Mike Harris decimated the highway network here.

Calling for a standardization and nation-wide renumbering system ignores the fact that the federal government has no direct role in highways, with the TCH project being the one major intervention.

But, I wouldn’t mind Ontario using TCH shields on the portions of highways with that designation. Québec would never.

 

[micheal_can]

But, I wouldn’t mind Ontario using TCH shields on the portions of highways with that designation. Québec would never.

Ontario does. 11, 17, 69 are all signed for TCH.

 

[Deadpool X]

Ontario does. 11, 17, 69 are all signed for TCH.

Even Highway 7 has TCH shields east of Peterborough.

 

[lenaitch]

I'd have a Barrie "bypass" travel roughly SW to somewhere around Kitchener/Guelph. With the idea being that it would allow for travel from northern Ontario to sw Ontario without entering the GTA. Particularly for transport trucks.

I'm not too sure that addresses either the commercial and non-commercial (tourist/commuter) traffic patterns between Simcoe County and the GTA, but stand to be corrected.

I find the current hodgepodge of provincial highway designs to be annoying on long road trips since the road configuration keeps changing. It's hard to know how much time it will take to cover a certain distance or how demanding the driving will be.

Freeways are typically less stressful to drive on than two-lane undivided highways with passing in the lane for oncoming traffic. With national freeway systems like the Interstate, you know you're going to get a grade-separated freeway with dual carriageways with a minimum of two lanes in each direction and a rural speed limit of at least 65 mph.

It's easier to estimate driving times, it's less stressful to drive long distances, it's faster, and it's safer to have freeways from coast to coast. It encourages people to get out and drive around the country and to move to other places in the country besides the three largest cities. It's bizarre that in Canada we neither have a national freeway system, a high-quality intercity railway system, or even a well-subsidized airport network. What exactly are our priorities for transportation and developing the country?

There will never, ever be sufficient traffic volume to justify the cost of a divided freeway-standard highway through northern Ontario. Similarly across Newfoundland & Labrador, through PEI or out to Cape Breton Island. Federal spending on highways is couched under various manners of regional development but, otherwise, they are a provincial responsibility. I don't see a strong economic, strategic or national identity argument for it. The US Interstate system was at least founded on the guise of national security during the heady days of the Cold War.

Common signage is cheaper.

 

[micheal_can]

There will never, ever be sufficient traffic volume to justify the cost of a divided freeway-standard highway through northern Ontario. Similarly across Newfoundland & Labrador, through PEI or out to Cape Breton Island. Federal spending on highways is couched under various manners of regional development but, otherwise, they are a provincial responsibility. I don't see a strong economic, strategic or national identity argument for it. The US Interstate system was at least founded on the guise of national security during the heady days of the Cold War.

The reasons for dividing a highway is not just traffic volume. Sometimes it is more about safety than volume. That does not mean it needs to be a full freeway.

 

[ShonTron]

Even Highway 7 has TCH shields east of Peterborough.

I am well aware. But they aren’t used as highway shields, but as supplemental signage.

 

[ericmacm]

Another highway fantasy would be a better highway network in Ottawa. That would include a ring road crossing the river as well as a connection from the 417 to A 5 as a freeway.

I actually have one in progress that I will post in due time. I am trying to find the best route for the Ring Road that the province has recently talked about, a freeway-to-freeway Ottawa River crossing, and a full freeway Airport Parkway.

 

[lenaitch]

The reasons for dividing a highway is not just traffic volume. Sometimes it is more about safety than volume. That does not mean it needs to be a full freeway.

For sure. I realize that this is a fantasy thread but I get the sense that many calls for limited-access divided highways are often based on 'Interstate envy'.

The Average Annual Daily Traffic count on the divided portions of the twinned Hwy 11/17 stretch between Nipigon and Thunder Bay and again between Kenora and the Manitoba boundary - the only domestic way to get between eastern and western Canada - seldom breach 5000 vehicles per day. No doubt 2-lane TCH stretches in the Atlantic provinces are similar.

 

[ARG1]

I find the current hodgepodge of provincial highway designs to be annoying on long road trips since the road configuration keeps changing. It's hard to know how much time it will take to cover a certain distance or how demanding the driving will be.

Freeways are typically less stressful to drive on than two-lane undivided highways with passing in the lane for oncoming traffic. With national freeway systems like the Interstate, you know you're going to get a grade-separated freeway with dual carriageways with a minimum of two lanes in each direction and a rural speed limit of at least 65 mph.

It's easier to estimate driving times, it's less stressful to drive long distances, it's faster, and it's safer to have freeways from coast to coast. It encourages people to get out and drive around the country and to move to other places in the country besides the three largest cities. It's bizarre that in Canada we neither have a national freeway system, a high-quality intercity railway system, or even a well-subsidized airport network. What exactly are our priorities for transportation and developing the country?

I'd agree if there was any coordination between highways crossing provincial boundaries as a consistent unit, but more often or not there isn't. There are only 2 freeways that cross the Ontario-Quebec border: 401/A20, and the 417/A40. The A5 and A50 just kinda end and awkwardly become King Edward Ave/Nicholas St upon crossing the border, there is only 1 highway that goes between Quebec and New Brunswick, etc. Minor crossings more often look like this, where the road crosses the border than just kinda ends.

If Canada was like the US where there is a large quantity of routes that cross provincial boundaries and maintained their status as large important thoroughfares, then maybe I would see a need as it can become difficult to keep track of all of them, but they are simply too few and far between to be in any way relevant, and even then provinces are too big where they become a problem for non-locals at any regular basis.

 

[Garuda]

Here I am just hoping that the next phase to finish the 68km gap of Highway 69/400 is four laned.

I emailed the MP but just got some word salad about repairs. Nothing about capital investments.

 

[micheal_can]

I am well aware. But they aren’t used as highway shields, but as supplemental signage.

I actually have one in progress that I will post in due time. I am trying to find the best route for the Ring Road that the province has recently talked about, a freeway-to-freeway Ottawa River crossing, and a full freeway Airport Parkway.

I look forward to seeing it.

For sure. I realize that this is a fantasy thread but I get the sense that many calls for limited-access divided highways are often based on 'Interstate envy'.

The Average Annual Daily Traffic count on the divided portions of the twinned Hwy 11/17 stretch between Nipigon and Thunder Bay and again between Kenora and the Manitoba boundary - the only domestic way to get between eastern and western Canada - seldom breach 5000 vehicles per day. No doubt 2-lane TCH stretches in the Atlantic provinces are similar.

The challenge is when they are the only highway in the area, an accident can close it for 12 hours or worse! Imagine the 401 being closed in both directions for 12 hours every time there is an accident.

Here I am just hoping that the next phase to finish the 68km gap of Highway 69/400 is four laned.

I emailed the MP but just got some word salad about repairs. Nothing about capital investments.

I have been told it is due to FN land negotiations.

 

[lenaitch]

The challenge is when they are the only highway in the area, an accident can close it for 12 hours or worse! Imagine the 401 being closed in both directions for 12 hours every time there is an accident.

Full closures on 400-series highways are not uncommon; although, admittedly, single direction closures are more common. I guess it is little comfort if e/b traffic is flowing and you are trying to be w/b.

I do like the idea Quebec uses on many of its A-series where they have cross-over points and allow single lane traffic in both directions on one side, but I get the sense that is more for maintenance closures rather than emergent.

I have been told it is due to FN land negotiations.

A la the 'Wahta gap' of the late 1990s into the 2000s.

 

[micheal_can]

Full closures on 400-series highways are not uncommon; although, admittedly, single direction closures are more common. I guess it is little comfort if e/b traffic is flowing and you are trying to be w/b.

The difference though, if the 401 is closed,there are other options. Not always the casein Northern ON.

I do like the idea Quebec uses on many of its A-series where they have cross-over points and allow single lane traffic in both directions on one side, but I get the sense that is more for maintenance closures rather than emergent.

They are used for construction and they just leave them.

A la the 'Wahta gap' of the late 1990s into the 2000s.

Likely.

 

[ericmacm]

Windsor
This concept envisions a full grade-separated freeway network through Windsor and Essex County. There are not many significant changes along the HWY 401 corridor with the exception of the additional interchange at the proposed future extension of Lauzon Parkway. The major changes in the network are an extension of E.C. ROW eastward with three new interchanges to the intersection of CR 22/Old Tecumseh Road in Puce, a full freeway upgrade of the newly divided HWY 3 through Essex County and extended to the intersection of CR 33/Seacliff Drive East in Leamington, and a new southwestern highway called the Malden Expressway, running from the HWY 401/HWY 3/CR 9 intersection southwest to the intersection of Meloche Road/Simcoe Street/Pike Road in Amherstburg. Part of the new Malden Expressway would also follow a portion of Laurier Parkway and Howard Avenue Diversion. My justification for the Malden Expressway corridor is the inadequacy of Front Road/CR 20, which is the main commuting link for Amherstburg/LaSalle into Windsor. These towns (among others in Essex County) are anticipated to take on the bulk of regional population growth in the future, and Front Road/CR 20 is not capable of being expanded beyond its current configuration due to it being fronted by residential for almost its entire length. Everything in the network would be twinned to a freeway standard. This also includes new road realignments, service roads, and connecting roads. I have also highlighted the visible portion of the Detroit freeway network to show how they would connect (in addition to the planned removal of the downtown portion of I-375), as well as highlighting important streets (Huron Church Road and Dougall Avenue/Ouellette Avenue) that provide border crossing connections. Interchange locations (44) are as follows:

• HWY 401 and Gordie Howe Bridge/USA (under construction)
• HWY 401 and Ojibway Parkway (existing)
• HWY 401 and E.C. ROW (existing)
• HWY 401 and HWY 3/Huron Church (existing)
• HWY 401 and Todd Lane (existing)
• HWY 401 and HWY 3/Huron Church Line (existing)
• HWY 401 and HWY 3/Montgomery Drive (existing)
• HWY 401 and HWY 3/CR 9 (existing, conceptual upgrade to full stack with HWY3 and Malden Expressway)
• HWY 401 and Dougall Parkway (existing)
• HWY 401 and Provincial Road (existing)
• HWY 401 and Lauzon Parkway (planned in EA, conceptual design)
• HWY 401 and Manning Road (existing)
• HWY 401 and Puce Road (existing)
• HWY 401 and Belle River Road (existing)
• HWY 401 and French Line Road (existing)
• HWY 401 and HWY 77/Comber Side Road (existing)
• HWY 401 and CR 42 (existing)
• HWY 401 and Queen's Line (existing)
• Dougall Parkway and Sixth Concession Road (existing)
• Dougall Parkway and Howard Avenue (existing)
• E.C. ROW and Ojibway Parkway (existing)
• E.C. ROW and Huron Church Road (existing)
• E.C. ROW and Dominion Boulevard (existing)
• E.C. ROW and Dougall Avenue (existing)
• E.C. ROW and Howard Avenue (existing)
• E.C. ROW and Walker Road (existing)
• E.C. ROW and Central Avenue (existing)
• E.C. ROW and Jefferson Boulevard (existing)
• E.C. ROW and Lauzon Parkway (existing)
• E.C. ROW and Banwell Road (under construction)
• E.C. ROW Extension and Manning Road (planned in EA, conceptual design)
• E.C. ROW Extension and Patillo Road (conceptual)
• HWY 3 and Walker Road (conceptual)
• HWY 3 and Manning Road (conceptual)
• HWY 3 and CR 23 (conceptual)
• HWY 3 and CR 29 (conceptual)
• HWY 3 and Graham Side Road (conceptual)
• HWY 3 and CR 31 (conceptual)
• HWY 3 and HWY 77/Erie Street North (conceptual)
• HWY 3 Extension and CR 34 (conceptual)
• Malden Expressway and Disputed Road (conceptual)
• Malden Expressway and North Townline Road (conceptual)
• Malden Expressway and Texas Road (conceptual)
• Malden Expressway and Pike Road (conceptual)

*Additionally, an interchange has been proposed for E.C. ROW Extension and Lesperance Road in the Town of Tecumseh's 2017 Transportation Plan, but I think it is way too close in proximity to Banwell to need an interchange. I would prefer to see it just become an overpass or underpass.

 

[dullturtle06]

Windsor
This concept envisions a full grade-separated freeway network through Windsor and Essex County. There are not many significant changes along the HWY 401 corridor with the exception of the additional interchange at the proposed future extension of Lauzon Parkway. The major changes in the network are an extension of E.C. ROW eastward with three new interchanges to the intersection of CR 22/Old Tecumseh Road in Puce, a full freeway upgrade of the newly divided HWY 3 through Essex County and extended to the intersection of CR 33/Seacliff Drive East in Leamington, and a new southwestern highway called the Malden Expressway, running from the HWY 401/HWY 3/CR 9 intersection southwest to the intersection of Meloche Road/Simcoe Street/Pike Road in Amherstburg. Part of the new Malden Expressway would also follow a portion of Laurier Parkway and Howard Avenue Diversion. My justification for the Malden Expressway corridor is the inadequacy of Front Road/CR 20, which is the main commuting link for Amherstburg/LaSalle into Windsor. These towns (among others in Essex County) are anticipated to take on the bulk of regional population growth in the future, and Front Road/CR 20 is not capable of being expanded beyond its current configuration due to it being fronted by residential for almost its entire length. Everything in the network would be twinned to a freeway standard. This also includes new road realignments, service roads, and connecting roads. I have also highlighted the visible portion of the Detroit freeway network to show how they would connect (in addition to the planned removal of the downtown portion of I-375), as well as highlighting important streets (Huron Church Road and Dougall Avenue/Ouellette Avenue) that provide border crossing connections. Interchange locations (44) are as follows:

• HWY 401 and Gordie Howe Bridge/USA (under construction)
• HWY 401 and Ojibway Parkway (existing)
• HWY 401 and E.C. ROW (existing)
• HWY 401 and HWY 3/Huron Church (existing)
• HWY 401 and Todd Lane (existing)
• HWY 401 and HWY 3/Huron Church Line (existing)
• HWY 401 and HWY 3/Montgomery Drive (existing)
• HWY 401 and HWY 3/CR 9 (existing, conceptual upgrade to full stack with HWY3 and Malden Expressway)
• HWY 401 and Dougall Parkway (existing)
• HWY 401 and Provincial Road (existing)
• HWY 401 and Lauzon Parkway (planned in EA, conceptual design)
• HWY 401 and Manning Road (existing)
• HWY 401 and Puce Road (existing)
• HWY 401 and Belle River Road (existing)
• HWY 401 and French Line Road (existing)
• HWY 401 and HWY 77/Comber Side Road (existing)
• HWY 401 and CR 42 (existing)
• HWY 401 and Queen's Line (existing)
• Dougall Parkway and Sixth Concession Road (existing)
• Dougall Parkway and Howard Avenue (existing)
• E.C. ROW and Ojibway Parkway (existing)
• E.C. ROW and Huron Church Road (existing)
• E.C. ROW and Dominion Boulevard (existing)
• E.C. ROW and Dougall Avenue (existing)
• E.C. ROW and Howard Avenue (existing)
• E.C. ROW and Walker Road (existing)
• E.C. ROW and Central Avenue (existing)
• E.C. ROW and Jefferson Boulevard (existing)
• E.C. ROW and Lauzon Parkway (existing)
• E.C. ROW and Banwell Road (under construction)
• E.C. ROW Extension and Manning Road (planned in EA, conceptual design)
• E.C. ROW Extension and Patillo Road (conceptual)
• HWY 3 and Walker Road (conceptual)
• HWY 3 and Manning Road (conceptual)
• HWY 3 and CR 23 (conceptual)
• HWY 3 and CR 29 (conceptual)
• HWY 3 and Graham Side Road (conceptual)
• HWY 3 and CR 31 (conceptual)
• HWY 3 and HWY 77/Erie Street North (conceptual)
• HWY 3 Extension and CR 34 (conceptual)
• Malden Expressway and Disputed Road (conceptual)
• Malden Expressway and North Townline Road (conceptual)
• Malden Expressway and Texas Road (conceptual)
• Malden Expressway and Pike Road (conceptual)

*Additionally, an interchange has been proposed for E.C. ROW Extension and Lesperance Road in the Town of Tecumseh's 2017 Transportation Plan, but I think it is way too close in proximity to Banwell to need an interchange. I would prefer to see it just become an overpass or underpass.

View attachment 570921

I love your ideas for connecting Ontario. bravo. I wish the government would focus on these instead of the 413 or enlarging existing highways to 24 lanes. Keep up the excellent work.