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Canada - Right Wing Utopia?

Whoaccio

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This Cato Institute report has been floating around the Canadian blogosphere of late. In brief, the report comes to the conclusion that if small government is your thing then Canada is about as good as it gets in N. America:

Reports last week that the recession is draining Social Security and Medicare funds were just one more reminder that the United States needs to fix its finances. For inspiration, why not look to Canada? Long derided by American conservatives as "socialist" and praised by the left for its generous government spending, Canada is casting off those stereotypes. Over the past few years, while U.S. politicians presided over huge increases in spending and debt, the Canadian government tightened its belt, slashed tax rates and balanced budgets.

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In the latest Coyne v. Wells blog post, Coyne asks that if the myth of Canada's fondness for social welfare is what separates us from the US, what do we have left and where do we go from here? So, right wing Canada, good or bad?
 
I don't want to see a return to the days of big deficits, but I would not mind seeing higher spending in certain areas: infrastructure, health care, debt reduction, defence/foreign aid/diplomacy, etc. And even then I'd say at most a percentage or two of GDP added to all those priorities. Otherwise, we are probably on track.

And I'll give credit to Chretien/Martin for that 'right wing' prudence.
 
The article fails to mention one crucial difference between the Martin/Chretien approach and those of American neocons and the current Harper government, and that is that the former never bought into the idea of cutting taxes, especially for the more monied classes. In that sense, was Canadian fiscal conservatism really a "right wing" thing? It wasn't a neoconservative thing, for sure.
 
The article fails to mention one crucial difference between the Martin/Chretien approach and those of American neocons and the current Harper government, and that is that the former never bought into the idea of cutting taxes, especially for the more monied classes. In that sense, was Canadian fiscal conservatism really a "right wing" thing? It wasn't a neoconservative thing, for sure.

those on the left seem to disagree
http://www.rabble.ca/news/paul-martin-he-has-record

from '03

Martin vows to cut taxes, debt load; Liberal leadership front-runner rejects PM's call for more social spending
CAMPBELL CLARK
Staff Writer
749 words
19 September 2003
The Globe and Mail
A4
English
All material copyright Bell Globemedia Publishing Inc. or its licensors. All rights reserved.
Ottawa ONT

On the eve of votes that are expected to make him Liberal leader, Paul Martin rejected Jean Chrétien's call for heavier social spending and reasserted himself as a fiscal fundamentalist who will cut taxes and the national debt.

Mr. Martin used his first major speech since May to call for a cap on spending increases, reaffirming a target for reducing the national debt to 25 per cent of the gross domestic product, from 40 per cent, and “continuing to lower taxes.â€

It was an economic prescription that clashed sharply with that of the outgoing Mr. Chrétien, who only two days ago delivered his own speech suggesting the government should plot a course that focused on rebuilding and expanding the social safety net rather than cutting taxes.

Mr. Martin said in a speech to the Board of Trade of Metropolitan Montreal that “it is absolutely essential that we continue to lower our national debt load, in order to keep our interest rates low, continue to lower taxes, and keep the flexibility we need to respond to an unpredictable international economy.

“Governments must never forget the lessons of prudent fiscal management. That means always keeping a firm grip on spending — always, but essentially and especially in the uncertain times now facing the global economy.â€

The speech won kudos from some business groups, such as the Canadian Chamber of Commerce, but was attacked as “conservative†by NDP Leader Jack Layton, who said it eliminated any need to unite the right.

It reaffirmed many principles Mr. Martin preached in nine years as finance minister but stood out for contrasting with the plan Mr. Chrétien proposed Tuesday in a speech in Quebec City.

Today, Liberal Party members begin three days of voting for delegates to the November leadership convention — balloting that is expected to clinch victory for Mr. Martin as the new leader and prime-minister-in-waiting.

“[Mr. Martin's speech] was certainly radically different from the Prime Minister's message to the Chamber on Tuesday,†said Nancy Hughes Anthony, president of the Canadian Chamber of Commerce, who applauded the speech as one that shook the government out of “complacency.â€

“We had the Prime Minister saying there's no need for tax cuts, everything's hunky-dory.â€

Mr. Chrétien had endorsed a proposal for “social investment†in health, the environment and other programs that was put forward by a Toronto-based group of academics, unionists and business people.

“It is an agenda of large public investment, none of which will be cheap,†Mr. Chrétien said. “These new public investments inevitably mean that there cannot be any new large tax cuts in the near future.â€

Mr. Layton said Liberals voting for delegates should be concerned about Mr. Martin's plan.

“It was the most conservative speech that we have heard. No wonder he's getting so much big corporate support,†the NDP Leader said. “This is not a Liberal speaking.â€

Mr. Martin also focused on the need for better development of technology industries to drive growth in the Canadian economy.

But he offered few specific proposals, apart from allowing more generous tax depreciation rates for technology that becomes obsolete quickly, a move that would allow businesses to write off such equipment earlier.;;;;


Martin on taxes
http://www.canadianencyclopedia.ca/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=M1ARTM0011937

"There is no doubt that we would like to reduce personal income taxes as much as we possibly can. The constraint is our resources - we've brought taxes down as much as we possibly can and we'll continue to do that."
 
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Missing are the health premium costs. To get the same basic health care in Canada, the Americans have to pay more.

The annual premium that a health insurer charges an employer for a health plan covering a family of four averaged $12,700 in 2008. Workers contributed nearly $3,400, or 12 percent more than they did in 2007. The annual premiums for family coverage significantly eclipsed the gross earnings for a full-time, minimum-wage worker ($10,712).
 
This Cato Institute report has been floating around the Canadian blogosphere of late. In brief, the report comes to the conclusion that if small government is your thing then Canada is about as good as it gets in N. America

With the way things are going in the US, it certainly looks that way - only thing I would like to point out is that you got to the top tax bracket in Canada MUCH QUICKER than in the US (I believe the top tax bracket is around $250,000 or more in the US) - and about half of all people fall below the lowest tax bracket (i.e. pay no federal income tax). Of course the way the deficits are going in the US - it will change quite dramatically (i.e. massive cuts or massive tax hikes or pushing it off even longer and it will be worse). I don't want the deficit spending to go beyond 2011 in Canada.
 
The article fails to mention one crucial difference between the Martin/Chretien approach and those of American neocons and the current Harper government, and that is that the former never bought into the idea of cutting taxes, especially for the more monied classes. In that sense, was Canadian fiscal conservatism really a "right wing" thing? It wasn't a neoconservative thing, for sure.

That's what I thought too--the use of "right-wing" has a broad meaning. It's important to keep in mind this is fiscal conservatism at work, not social conservatism and has been practised by both Liberal and Conservative governments.

Canada has by and large done a decent job of pushing budgets American fiscal conservatives would give a thumbs up to if they weren't distracted by our social programs. And American right-wingers (Republicans) have become the big spenders they used to accuse the Democrats of being and will end of paying the piper eventually.

I like the effort to keep finances from spiraling out of control overall and while I hope the current recession doesn't make the Conservatives lose it I'm not so sure. On the other hand, I'm not so happy about what's been happening with corporate tax rates. There's nothing wrong with throwing them a bone from time to time but it isn't necessary to have a steady drop. And corporate bailouts are another mess altogether.

I don't see Canada as a potential right wing utopia as much as a country trying to tread a middle ground by not going to economic extremes. Unfortunately anything we do might not matter if America's problems get out of hand.
 
That's what I thought too--the use of "right-wing" has a broad meaning. It's important to keep in mind this is fiscal conservatism at work, not social conservatism and has been practised by both Liberal and Conservative governments.

Canada has by and large done a decent job of pushing budgets American fiscal conservatives would give a thumbs up to if they weren't distracted by our social programs. And American right-wingers (Republicans) have become the big spenders they used to accuse the Democrats of being and will end of paying the piper eventually.

Don't you mean "entitlement programs" ;)
 
The article fails to mention one crucial difference between the Martin/Chretien approach and those of American neocons and the current Harper government, and that is that the former never bought into the idea of cutting taxes, especially for the more monied classes. In that sense, was Canadian fiscal conservatism really a "right wing" thing? It wasn't a neoconservative thing, for sure.

The NDP certainly made a big deal about the Chretien/Martin program cuts and about where the tax cuts were allocated. I do think it's quite right wing to cut spending and taxes at the same time. The goal was not just to get the books balanced. It was to actually reduce the tax burden. That's typically a more right wing idea.

Missing are the health premium costs. To get the same basic health care in Canada, the Americans have to pay more.

It often strikes me as strange that Americans don't count the cost of health care when comparing taxes with other countries. Given that our taxes are about the same or marginally higher, we get a pretty good deal since health care is included.

I don't see Canada as a potential right wing utopia as much as a country trying to tread a middle ground by not going to economic extremes. Unfortunately anything we do might not matter if America's problems get out of hand.

If US Republicans knew more about our fiscal policies I have no doubt that they would look at Canada as a right-wing utopia, especially in comparison to an Obama run US. As of today there isn't even a plan to balance the budget. Taxes will have to rise significantly to pay for all the spending Obama is throwing on and the Bush deficits....at least if the US wants to maintains its creditworthiness and status as a reserve currency. Given those problems ours seem relatively minor. Our budget deficits will recover once the economy picks up. We might need a point or two on the GST to fully balance the books. But that would be relatively minor....and at least we have a national sales tax.

As for dealing with the end of the empire, we should be working on diversifying and to some extent we are....hence the Canada-EU FTA, the Pacific gateway initiative, etc. Yes, we need to do more, but realistically we'll only really shift our focus when the US really starts to get in trouble. Right now they are so much easier to have as a trading partner.
 
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Brian:

Low corporate taxes aren't a bone thrown to the rich owners of the firm. Nearly all corporate taxation is borne by workers through reduced wages and lower investment. Since Canada is a small, open economy, if capital can't earn the world rate of return it leaves (or never comes in the first place). This lack of investment hurts productivity, which hurts wages. So lowering corporate taxes is not a social justice issue, or at least in the way you expect. A hint is that some of the most socialist countries in the West, in Scandinavia, have very low corporate tax regimes.
 
It often strikes me as strange that Americans don't count the cost of health care when comparing taxes with other countries. Given that our taxes are about the same or marginally higher, we get a pretty good deal since health care is included.

Our pension system is also solvent, where their system... isn't ($35 trillion unfunded liability?). Their government will be bankrupt, and they probably will have senior citizens rotting in poverty. The entire middle class that are expecting those benefits likely won't see them.

Our budget deficits will recover once the economy picks up. We might need a point or two on the GST to fully balance the books. But that would be relatively minor....and at least we have a national sales tax.

Harper budgeted five years of deficits, and that is with a more aggressive spending growth target than he has been able to achieve (he has grown the budget faster than any PM since Mulroney at least). I don't think we can return to a balanced budget until we get a Liberal majority, as Harper does not have the political capital to make those unpopular decisions in a minority context.

It occurs to me that Harper is almost our Bush II: tax cuts we can't afford coupled with a lack of fiscal restraint. Hopefully we don't get a big spending Obama in Ignatieff.

As for dealing with the end of the empire, we should be working on diversifying and to some extent we are....hence the Canada-EU FTA, the Pacific gateway initiative, etc. Yes, we need to do more, but realitically we'll only really shift our focus till the US really starts to get in trouble. Right now there are so much easier to have as a trading partner.

There's also the issue of them still having a powerful military, us having oil, gas and water, and their desire and inability to pay for said resources. It may sound far fetched but I'm not so sure.
 
^ That seems a little far-fetched. I don't think the US would realistically ever take military action against Canada. To what end anyway? They absorb 32 million Canadians, radically alter US demographics and get their most leftist electorate in history? They might get our oil but that would be the end of the US as they know it.

As for the Harper-Bush II comparison...that's a little shrill don't you think. When the economy was booming we would have had balanced books with a smaller surplus after the tax cuts. I don't buy that the cuts were unsustainable. The problem, of course, was spending. Our Conservative Prime Minister could not follow through on the Conservative instinct to keep spending in check because he wanted to be everybody's (every province's anyway) friend. With the 10+ billion surpluses of the Liberal era, we could have easily afforded the 2% GST cut back then. That we can't afford them in a downturn is not necessarily an indicator that they are unsustainable in the long term. The Parliamentary Budget Officer and private sector economists have forecasted a return to balanced budgets down the road. I think 2012-2013? In the US, they don't even have that promise. I believe the best Obama can do is get the deficit down to 400+ billion by the end of his first term. After that, the deficit starts to rise again. And that doesn't even account for sub-national government spending. That's a far cry from the situation we face. There is no comparison. Had our government scrapped the GST all in one go, then maybe we would have had a sufficient comparison to make the Bush II moniker accurate.
 
Brian:

Low corporate taxes aren't a bone thrown to the rich owners of the firm. Nearly all corporate taxation is borne by workers through reduced wages and lower investment. Since Canada is a small, open economy, if capital can't earn the world rate of return it leaves (or never comes in the first place). This lack of investment hurts productivity, which hurts wages. So lowering corporate taxes is not a social justice issue, or at least in the way you expect. A hint is that some of the most socialist countries in the West, in Scandinavia, have very low corporate tax regimes.

Certainly I see the need to attract business and keep it--we can't tax businesses out of the picture. But at the same time we can assume the profits from reduced corporate taxes would benefit corporations first and workers second. I'm not for shooting corporate rates through the roof; I'm just wondering if we aren't tilting too far the other way with consistent reductions that aren't always necessary.

In the Scandinavian cases, wouldn't the high unionization levels of Scandinavian countries mean more corporate spending through wages and benefit packages? I would think corporations have to throw those numbers into the mix when planning for investment there.
 
Current Canadian SELECTIVE SOCIALISM: Nothing right wing about it.


Shawn McCarthy, Greg Keenan and Karen Howlett

Ottawa and Toronto — From Saturday's Globe and Mail, Saturday, May. 23, 2009 06:54PM EDT

General Motors of Canada Ltd. will use billions of dollars in government loans to reduce its yawning pension deficit under a cost-cutting labour agreement that removes a major obstacle to the troubled auto maker obtaining $6-billion in federal and provincial aid.

The tentative agreement with the Canadian Auto Workers union paves the way for Ottawa and Ontario to join Washington in massive bailout of the staggering auto giant, which is expected to submit a new restructuring plan to U.S. President Barack Obama within days.

But the deal represents an apparent about-face for the Harper government, which has long insisted federal taxpayers would not subsidize GM pensioners. Ottawa is expected to argue that only the provincial portion of the bailout can be used for the pension plan, but critics are already saying that distinction is meaningless.

Mr. Obama and Prime Minister Stephen Harper have given GM until May 31 to submit a credible restructuring plan after rejecting the company's initial effort. However, the company is still expected to seek bankruptcy protection under Chapter 11 to deal with creditors in the United States, and may seek similar court protection in Canada.

The proposed labour deal announced yesterday maintains base wages for GM Canada workers.

It also spares the pensions of existing retirees, but current workers face significant cuts to pensions and benefits, including giving up a promised $3,500 lump sum that was meant to compensate a loss of holiday time.

GM Canada will use savings generated by the union agreement and as much as $2-billion from the government loans to make a $4-billion contribution to its pension shortfall, sources said yesterday. The company will then have six years to eliminate the remaining deficit, now said to be $7-billion.

“We have preserved our wages, we have preserved and secured our pension benefits and we have protected most of our core benefits,†CAW President Ken Lewenza told a news conference yesterday. “Those are important victories.â€

He said this contract and the one the CAW and GM signed in February deliver about $22 an hour in cost savings – including productivity gains – leaving GM Canada with a labour cost of $57 an hour, roughly equivalent to Toyota Canada Inc.

In a release, GM said the tentative agreement is a “critical step forward toward ensuring GM's future in Canada.â€

Ottawa and Ontario governments welcomed the tentative agreement, saying it was an important step in GM Canada's efforts to achieve a competitive cost structure that will allow it to return to profitability in the longer term.

Industry Minister Tony Clement has long argued that GM Canada's pension shortfall was a matter for the provincial government to resolve because it regulates the plan. Under the proposed deal, Ontario would contribute a third of the total Canadian restructuring package, and GM would use that provincial money to help reduce the pension shortfall.

Mr. Clement would continue to claim federal taxpayers are not subsidizing the pension plan.

That distinction is “hair splitting,†said Kevin Gaudet, federal director for the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, a conservative lobby group.

“No level of government, no taxpayer should be bailing out the pension plan, or anything of the company. It's ridiculous,†he said. “And their hairsplitting won't matter a whit to those taxpayers who have no pension plan.â€

Mr. Gaudet was particularly critical of Mr. Harper, who started his political career as a Reform Party MP and served as the head of the right-wing National Citizens Coalition in Calgary before becoming Conservative Party leader.

“Mr. Harper may left his balls out West when it comes to taking a principle stand against bailing out this industry like he used believe in,†he said.

During a stop in Alberta, the Prime Minister said he was “glad in principle†that the company and union had reached a tentative agreement.

Ottawa indicated last December that Canadian governments would be a 20-per-cent partner with the American government in providing assistance to restructuring GM and Chrysler LLC. That proportion was meant to reflect Canada's share of North American production of the Detroit-based companies.

But after last week's closure of the truck assembly plant in Oshawa, GM Canada now represents only about 15 per cent of the company's North American production, and Canada's share of the bailout will be set accordingly, sources said yesterday.

Mr. Harper said the Canadian government had little choice except to participate in the “politically-driven restructuring†of GM and Chrysler, which was led by Washington.

“Either we participate in the restructuring or these companies, which are very big in the Canadian economy will simply be restructured out of Canada. And our judgment is that is simply not a reasonable alternative.â€

Opposition politicians in both Ottawa and Queen's Park have largely ducked the issue of whether governments should provide assistance to the auto companies, mindful that the bailouts are broadly unpopular but have more support in heavily populated southern Ontario, where the manufacturing sector has been devastated by the recession.

Ontario Progressive Conservative MPP Christine Elliott, who represents the provincial riding of Whitby-Oshawa, said governments “should not be picking winners and losers.â€

But the leadership candidate is married to federal Finance Minister Jim Flaherty, who represents the federal riding of Whitby-Oshawa. She did not criticize the decision to aid GM and Chrysler.

“We must ensure that any government money given to auto makers is done so in an open and transparent way,†Ms. Elliott said.

The automotive industry – including parts suppliers and both Detroit-based and foreign-owner auto makers – represented 1.5 per cent of Canada's $1.3-trillion economy in 2008, according to the Conference Board of Canada.

The North American auto makers alone accounted for 2 per cent of Ontario's output and 30,000 jobs, according to a report by the Toronto-based Centre of Spatial Economics. The parts suppliers that rely on those three companies accounted for 76,000 jobs. Combined, the auto and parts industries represented 3 per cent of Ontario's output.

“These huge impacts would appear to suggest that the government bailouts could pay for themselves,†said Derek Burleton, director of economic analysis at Toronto-Dominion Bank.

Still, plenty could go wrong that would make the government's investments in Chrysler and General Motors a bust, Mr. Burleton said.

“The increased cost competitiveness of GM mitigates, but does not eliminate the risk that these companies could fail down the road,†Mr. Burleton said. “So much will depend on how successful these companies are in selling vehicles and executing on their revival strategies.â€
CAW press conference




MORE FROM THE TD IN THE U.S CONGRESS:

BANK GREED LED TO RISK-TAKING, TD'S CLARK SAYS
by Tara Perkins globe and mail

Bankers knew about the risks that led to the financial crisis, but were too greedy to take measures necessary to avoid them, Toronto-Dominion Bank chief executive officer Ed Clarke suggested yesterday May 21, 2009. Mr. Clark was one of four expert witnesses appearing in Washington at hearings the US senate committee on homeland security is holding on lessons to be learned from banking systems in other countries. The hearings are focused on systemic risks, and Mr. Clarke told the senators that all of the risks were well known and talked about. "It's not as if there was mystery out there that the U.S. mortagage system had in fact gone way out of the risk curve and was doing what most bankers regarded as crazy lending. It's not as if there wasn't meeting after meeting....about the risks that are inherent in structured products," he said.

This current conservative government didn't have a problem initially offering 40 year mortgages with zero percent down. I did notice how they played down the fact that it was their idea. This current conservative government thinks it's the high risk borrowers who need to be educated about the risks they are taking?
 

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