CGM
Active Member
The Canadian economy, and to some extent the US and global economy are not in the doomsday scenario everybody is making them out to be... All these fear mongering will only fuel the flames and add further stress to the situation
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Canada rated world's soundest bank system: survey
- Thread starter MADEinHK
- Start date
lowesthangingfruit
Active Member
andrejeffry
Active Member
keep telling yourself that. It is as gloomy as advertised. The last thing governments need to do is denying that things are not as bad as it looks. Because IT IS as bad as it looks.
Governments, U.S, EU, Canada, Japan, Asian, pro-active measures so far what have prevented the world economy from complete collapse.
Read the history of 1920-30 market collapse, part of it is because the slowness and lack of government willingness and ability to intervene.
Going back to banking, here's the Forbes 2008 Banking list BEFORE the meltdown (sort by profit)
Rank Company Country Industry Sales ($bil) Profits ($bil) Assets ($bil) Market Value ($bil)
1 HSBC Holdings United Kingdom Banking 146.50 19.13 2,348.98 180.81
3 Bank of America United States Banking 119.19 14.98 1,715.75 176.53
4 JPMorgan Chase United States Banking 116.35 15.37 1,562.15 136.88
10 Royal Bank of Scotland United Kingdom Banking 108.45 14.62 3,807.51 76.64
13 BNP Paribas France Banking 116.16 10.71 2,494.41 81.90
21 Banco Santander Spain Banking 72.26 10.02 1,332.72 113.27
24 Citigroup United States Banking 159.23 3.62 2,187.63 123.44
25 Barclays United Kingdom Banking 79.70 8.76 2,432.34 62.43
33 UniCredit Group Italy Banking 63.67 7.19 1,077.21 77.46
35 Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Japan Banking 49.49 7.50 1,591.56 98.14
40 BBVA-Banco Bilbao Vizcaya Spain Banking 54.34 8.94 733.14 78.29
41 Wells Fargo United States Banking 53.59 8.06 575.44 96.37
42 ICBC China Banking 37.48 6.31 961.65 289.57
44 HBOS United Kingdom Banking 100.32 8.10 1,336.17 44.84
45 Crédit Agricole France Banking 101.59 6.49 1,662.60 45.73
50 Wachovia United States Banking 55.53 6.31 782.90 60.69
54 Lloyds TSB Group United Kingdom Banking 58.74 6.53 701.08 50.95
55 Royal Bank of Canada Canada Banking 43.57 5.77 629.96 64.41
56 Bank of China China Banking 31.13 5.49 679.57 171.45
62 CCB-China Construction Bank China Banking 29.16 5.93 697.44 126.55
71 Mizuho Financial Japan Banking 32.52 5.28 1,272.17 48.80
82 Sumitomo Mitsui Financial Japan Banking 33.04 3.76 850.75 56.10
85 Banco Bradesco Brazil Banking 36.12 4.11 192.65 59.80
85 KBC Group Belgium Banking 35.22 4.66 517.98 43.66
87 Dexia Belgium Banking 140.78 3.47 889.98 28.04
89 National Australia Bank Australia Banking 38.88 4.06 499.44 43.95
92 Bank of Nova Scotia Canada Banking 28.02 4.25 431.30 48.08
95 Toronto-Dominion Bank Canada Banking 26.51 4.20 443.56 48.38
99 Commonwealth Bank Australia Banking 26.48 3.80 360.42 51.86
102 Société Générale Group France Banking 103.44 1.30 1,573.13 62.93
103 Intesa Sanpaolo Italy Banking 22.25 3.38 383.09 86.29
115 Nordea Bank Sweden Banking 23.49 4.30 568.51 39.40
117 ANZ Banking Australia Banking 26.54 3.71 347.96 39.53
118 US Bancorp United States Banking 20.31 4.32 237.62 55.39
130 Westpac Banking Group Australia Banking 22.99 3.06 331.83 40.97
132 Banco do Brasil Brazil Banking 28.61 2.60 202.00 41.54
135 Standard Chartered Group United Kingdom Banking 21.25 2.81 328.65 46.94
139 Danske Bank Group Denmark Banking 33.87 2.90 655.61 26.33
159 Canadian Imperial Bank Canada Banking 24.54 3.47 359.49 25.96
160 Commerzbank Germany Banking 39.98 2.80 899.96 20.03
165 Sberbank Russia Banking 14.75 3.15 131.70 71.88
175 Itaúsa Brazil Banking 28.97 2.05 167.06 28.22
180 Kookmin Bank South Korea Banking 30.86 2.65 214.79 21.10
183 Bank of New York Mellon United States Banking 14.78 2.22 197.66 50.27
189 Bank of Montreal Canada Banking 21.41 2.24 385.41 25.30
HSBC is by far the strongest bank, they will becoming even stronger, much stronger, much bigger after this crisis. People pull money out of their current banks and put it into HSBC. In the last couple of quaters, they had a record of cash in-flow (deposits).
From that list, large ones that are getting hammered:
Citigroup
Royal Bank of Scotland
Barclays
Wachovia --> no more
HBOS
2009 list will see all Canadian Banks moving up on the list
Urban Shocker
Doyenne
It's so reassuring to see a ranking of banking systems based on the "opinions of executives". We can all rest easy now.
TrickyRicky
Senior Member
"The Canadian economy, and to some extent the US and global economy are not in the doomsday scenario everybody is making them out to be... All these fear mongering will only fuel the flames and add further stress to the situation"
We will likely be spared a doomsday scenario, that is what all the market turmoil and government bailouts are about. What the market turmoil and government bailouts will not do is stave off an extended downturn. Asset wealth and consumption must both decline over the next year in the western world. How can you avoid downturn when asset worth and consumption decline?
We will likely be spared a doomsday scenario, that is what all the market turmoil and government bailouts are about. What the market turmoil and government bailouts will not do is stave off an extended downturn. Asset wealth and consumption must both decline over the next year in the western world. How can you avoid downturn when asset worth and consumption decline?
cdr108
Senior Member
What does one consider a 'doomsday scenario'?
- the world coming to an end, not likely!
50% off the peak of stock market indices?
- that will happen and probably more unless the global economies continue to prop it up since there's so much toxic waste out there.
RE values dropping 30-50% (depending on how much it appreciated recently) within 5 years - yes, and again that isn't bad b/c RE was over-valued for many areas related to incomes.
DarnDirtyApe
Active Member
Well, the TSX is already down about 40% from the peak (15,000 to 9,269). Oil prices are now over 50% off the peak. Our banks may be pretty sound, but that doesn't mean that they'll keep lending at the same rate.