California Condos (Camrost-Felcorp) - Real Estate -

Mybrains and others, don't be so narrow minded. If anything, the news of the success of this project demonstrates good strength in the market. Look at the big picture!

Just some food for thought.... :)
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You are mistaking a narrow mind for a critical eye.

I like my food with less fat and grizzle.

Enjoy your Wednesday afternoon sales meeting at CF.
 
Funkster said:
Buy resale at lower prices? There is no comparison between resale and pre-construction. Just scraping the surface, buy resale now, you move in now, you pay mortgage payments now. You can't buy resale and move in 1.5 yrs. from now.
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Most (but not all) people would consider that an advantage.

Buy pre-construction at affordable prices? You're not in a rush to move right away, you expect to move around the time the building is finished, you pay a deposit now and you start paying your mortgage once you occupy.

I would personally rather have my money sitting in a deposit for a condo, rather than in the unpredictable stock market.
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I'd rather stick it in a bank.

P.S. I've bought both resale and pre-construction in the past, so I'm well aware of the advantages and disadvantages of both. I'm just pointing out the obvious, since some seemed to have missed it. The $149900 pricing at this development is in no way representative of the development. It is a loss leader sale to generate publicity. A critical assessment shows us that the development is not actually that inexpensive. It's just inexpensive for the tiniest units, which others have already pointed out only represent 3% of the units. The rest of the units are just average priced, nothing special. Not overly enticing... For much of the market, at least for those looking for bigger units, resale is a definite alternative, esp. considering that similarly priced units can be had in more central locations.

P.P.S. Don't forget that once you move into a (pre-)construction, you don't actually pay into the mortgage immediately. You usually pay rent for a period of time.
 
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Funkster said:
wow!

First, Mybrains, you may be a little off on your understanding of economics and the real-estate market. Over the long term (5 yrs. +), real-estate has demonstrated to be a good investment, for the most part. Camrost posted videos on camrost.com that have interviews with purchasers and real-estate experts. I'm not going to go on further, but have a look at the big picture with the Toronto and GTA housing market.

Second, have you ever thought to look at this new offering from a different perspective? It's no secret that they must want to sell their product - who wouldn't? At the same time, this builder must have listened to current and perspective purchaser feedback, as well as he understands what the present market needs / wants. Based on the feedback, he went back to the drawing table to offer some new, more affordable suite designs in response to market demands. The lower price point will make it much easier for people like me who want to purchase their first piece of real-estate, and build from there.

Buy resale at lower prices? There is no comparison between resale and pre-construction. Just scraping the surface, buy resale now, you move in now, you pay mortgage payments now. You can't buy resale and move in 1.5 yrs. from now.

Buy pre-construction at affordable prices? You're not in a rush to move right away, you expect to move around the time the building is finished, you pay a deposit now and you start paying your mortgage once you occupy.

I would personally rather have my money sitting in a deposit for a condo, rather than in the unpredictable stock market. Also, I am no economic expert, however I would suggest that signs of our economy in 1.5 yrs. from now are more positive than negative. As we progress out of this downturn, the value of resale properties will also go up.

Suddenly, people who buy fair priced, pre-construction condos now will be laughing at people who either waited, or those people who bought resale and had to put lots of money into the property to bring it up to new construction standard.

Mybrains and others, don't be so narrow minded. If anything, the news of the success of this project demonstrates good strength in the market. Look at the big picture!

Just some food for thought.... :)
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For the record Camrost isn't exactly offering 'affordable' condos. They manipulated the pricing structure to create 1 type of unit (a loss leader if you will) at a set price point ($149 900) in order to generate interest and media attention. However, prices above the base unit quickly rise to typical unit rates ($400/sq ft). Plus once you add in the extra charges for parking/locker (parking is necessary in this part of the city as transit service is nothing like it is downtown, to pull an analogy with Fly) prices for the 455 sq ft shoe box rise to almost $400/sq ft. For this area I really feel that this is over priced. Of course there will be others who think that the price is right and that's their decision.

However to get back to the point. Weather or not CF is in trouble, this new pricing structure is nothing more than pure marketing designed to bring people in just because you are able to offer a stripped down condo unit at a certain price point. Looking at the prices confirms this since every other unit is still priced the same.
 
I guess Ducati should join me at the sales meetings?

It would be interesting to see what other new condos in the area are charging, with also comparing the pro's and the con's.

For the record, I'm all for the other projects in the area too, because I love the AREA! It's going to be well developed and a nice hot spot within the next 10 yrs.
 
YourAnthony said:
Thanks! I got a Corona, going to be my first place.
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I thought all the Coronas were sold out in the first month? Maybe they held some back?

What floor is it on and how much was it, if you don't mind me asking? Congrats anyhow...
 
Woodbridge_Heights said:
Yup not impressive at all, my gut feeling of a fly condo style pricing system was confirmed today.

Here is the price list that I got:
455 sq ft $149900
530 sq ft $204900
545 sq ft $189900
580 sq ft $219900
635 sq ft $244900
675 sq ft $259900
695 sq ft $274900

etc

Plus $16000 for a standard parking spot (cheaper spots available if you have a smart/small car, or a moped), and $3000 for a storage locker.
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As several have noted, this was pure marketing by CF.
CF may or maynot be in trouble, ... it's unlikely; however, they do have many projects in the construction and pre-construction phases (ie. California, iloft, The Avenue, R Condos) which requires cash flow and are tieing up capital.
I think that is the critical issue here, as no developer wants to be holding alot of unsold units, if or when the economy goes into a double dip.

Beyond the 455 SF box @ $149K which only represents 3% of all units as others have said, the average price is $400 PSF, which doesn't represent 'value' IMO considering several dt projects can be had for $400-425 PSF, with probably better features, finishes and a more central location.
 
I don't think it will necessarily be a "hot" spot in 10 years, but I do think it should see some good development and will likely be reasonably popular.

Like I said before, the area is quite reasonable. The posters here who think anything beyond the confines of central Toronto is stupid really don't understand much about the various options of GTA living IMO.

However, I was just disappointed by the pricing of California Condos. Despite the small size of the units (a size I would never personally consider buying), the price was fairly good. I was holding faint hope that the bigger units would get similar pricing, but unfortunately that's not the case.

If you're in the market for a 455 sq. ft. unit then this is a reasonable option. If you're looking for something bigger then you may do better looking elsewhere.
 
Tron said:
I thought all the Coronas were sold out in the first month? Maybe they held some back?

What floor is it on and how much was it, if you don't mind me asking? Congrats anyhow...
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Hey,

Thanks man! It's on the 8th floor and it was 244k.
 
Having a bunch of Pre-Construction, or under construction buildings in the pipe obviously means that you have a bunch of money from people who have bought pre-construction condos from you (with the expectation that you will complete). This is a huge liability to the builder, particularly in this economy. There are far to many scenarios where a liability like that could hammer a builder.
 
They exaggerated that there was a lot of people lining up before the doors were open. I was expecting a bigger turnout in the morning. How much was seen in that video, six people?
 
Woodbridge_Heights said:
455 sq ft $149900
530 sq ft $204900
545 sq ft $189900
580 sq ft $219900
635 sq ft $244900
675 sq ft $259900
695 sq ft $274900
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$380-400PSF is ok price for the area, but not exactly a steal.

This could be a great solution for younger end-users with smaller wallets, but, from an investment perspective we prefer to stay in the core for appreciation and rents.
 
June 26

Was going to go into the sales office and check things out for someone, but running out of time.

IMG_june-26-09-0058.JPG
 
Yossi Kaplan said:
$380-400PSF is ok price for the area, but not exactly a steal.

This could be a great solution for younger end-users with smaller wallets, but, from an investment perspective we prefer to stay in the core for appreciation and rents.
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I respect that you are in the RE business and I am not but you can't say that pricing for California is OK, it's not overpriced by any means. But it's still not a good deal.

Compare against Fly Condos which had a similar pricing structure (both in terms of unit price and $/sq ft), at least Fly has the benefit of a downtown location, close to transit, etc etc etc. You almost don't need a car (and thus the crazy $30 000 cost for a parking spot) at Fly. While California still doesn't have the transit service to allow you to fully give up a car.

Really the only thing California has going for it is the Lake view. Does that benefit equate to the benefits of living in a dt condo such as Fly?
 
somehow you people dont really get it,those who want to live in this area would rather have the leisure environment rather than the hustle of the downtown core.The sports complex of this project rivals anything in the city for condo owners,the aspect of a greenspace and the short distance to the city is a bonus for condo owners without the grime,noise,traffic headaches of downtown.You get the best of two worlds.You also must realize the LRT is coming in and the TTC already planned better bus routes for this area.Whats really special about FLy condos?..its near a streetcar stop???...
 
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