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Brampton Transit/Zum

unimaginative2 said:
What Brampton Transit is doing is very impressive. They're really going a long way to improve service, both on the local bus routes and through introducing a premium BRT service like the successful VIVA. Brampton is going to have a very respectable transit service in a few years.
Click to expand...

There is no doubt that Viva has been successful in increasing ridership on its corridors. Its routes see continual increases in frequency and ridership. However, the rest of YRT seems to be in a steady decline, with reduced frequencies causing reduced ridership, which in turn encourages further reduced frequencies. I hope Brampton will be able to sustain its service levels unlike YRT. But I agree, there is alot of potential in Zum.
 
Not sure if VIVA can be called a success when overall transit ridership growth in York has been steadily slowing down since its introduction. The fastest ridership growth actually occurred the year before VIVA.

And of course, it isn't just the regular YRT service that has been cut back. VIVA has been cut back a lot as well (Purple used have service west of York U, and Green used to have all day service, for example).

The Zum routes make a lot more sense than the VIVA routes do though. And they are planning huge service increases for non-BRT service. Brampton is a lot more aggressive than York when it comes to transit. Just look at the route 77 debacle and you will see Brampton is much more aggressive. So there is decent chance Zum won't be a failure like VIVA.
 
Thanks doady, I was actually about to say Viva is not meeting it's initial predictions ... so you really can't call it a success in that sense, particular everything other then viva blue ... anyone have the stats though to back up this claim? I did a while ago and no clue where they are anymore (what the sites are that is)
 
The only success VIVA has is it's blue line and it's branding. York region residents are very proud of this service and often boast how much better their buses are over Torontos. The main difference is branding and nicer stations for what really is just semi-express bus service. People think it is really great to have 15 min service. Those in Toronto already have fantastic bus service, we just need more RAPID service since our system is over-crowded and extremely well used.
 
taal said:
Thanks doady, I was actually about to say Viva is not meeting it's initial predictions ... so you really can't call it a success in that sense, particular everything other then viva blue ... anyone have the stats though to back up this claim? I did a while ago and no clue where they are anymore (what the sites are that is)
Click to expand...

Here are some stats from Nov 2009.

http://www.york.ca/NR/rdonlyres/ed2...66sbnuhff34d3wbwjo6rpf6orjrqa/Jan+6+Rider.pdf

YOu might be able to find more reports here:

http://www.york.ca/Regional+Government/Agendas+Minutes+and+Reports/default.htm
 
I don't think Viva's actually doing too badly.

Viva Purple and Viva Green were cut back pretty soon after Viva started. It's not that ridership dropped, it's just that it wasn't there in the first place. Since then Purple has seen a frequency increase from every 15 to every 12 minutes and Viva Blue has seen an increase to every 4 minutes, and even more than that if you include Viva Pink.

And yeah people have a lot lower standards about frequency in York Region. I find that everyone from York Region that I talk to says that the Steeles Buses (60/53) are SO AWESOME because they come "every two seconds", yet I've heard people from Toronto complain that the 60 isn't frequent enough.
 
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The interim schedules for September 7-September 19 are posted on BT's "E-Ride" trip planner. Route 177 is the temporary route between BCC and York U, stopping at all the Zum stops in between, 15 minutes all day, 7 days a week. The rush hour branch with express 407 running is also part of the 177 service (so 7.5 minute rush service between BCC and Highway 50). Route 1 is extended to Highway 50.
 
Just look at the route 77 debacle and you will see Brampton is much more aggressive. So there is decent chance Zum won't be a failure like VIVA.
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What debacle? Please elaborate.
 
Brampton Transit service changes are now posted. Most of the changes take place on the 20th. Not only will the 501/501A Zum be introduced, but a lot of routes are getting improved service. All the main grid routes (1,2,3,4,5,7,11,14,15,18,29,30,51) run 30 minutes or better at all times starting the 20th.

Between the 7th and the 20th (when YRT and BT end joint operation of Route 77), the Route 1 changes take place to extend local service, and a temporary Zum-type service provides service into Woodbridge and York U.

I've included the highlights.

http://www.brampton.ca/en/residents/transit/Schedules-Maps/Pages/ServiceImprovements.aspx

September 7:
Route 1 Queen
Route extended to Queen Street and Highway 50 to facilitate connections with YRT Route 77
NEW 1A short turn from Chinguacousy Road to Delta Park Boulevard during Weekday Peaks
20 minute frequency Weekdays and Saturday Day
30 minute frequency Saturday Evening and all day Sunday
Combined 1 and 1A Weekday Peak frequency of 10 minutes west of Airport Road

Route 77
ROUTE ELIMINATED in Brampton
Replaced by 177/177A Highway 7 Express from September 7-19 ONLY
YRT Route 77 will operate to Queen Street and Highway 50/The Gore Road to connect with Brampton Transit service

TEMPORARY ROUTE - 177/177A Highway 7 Express
Limited stop express service from Bramalea Terminal to York University stopping only at all Züm Station stops and Viva stops in York Region
15 minute frequency
177A via highways 427/407 ETR Weekday Peak only (every 15 minutes)

September 20:

New Bramalea City Centre Terminal opens, though is farther from the mall entrances, and designed to provide a quick on-off for Zum buses on Queen.

501 Züm Queen
* NEW bus rapid transit service running from downtown Brampton to York University
* Züm 501A via Queen Street/ Highway 427/407 ETR Weekday Peak only
* 7.5 minute combined peak frequency through Brampton
* 15 minute off-peak frequency

3 McLaughlin
* Weekday Evening, all day Saturday and Sunday frequency increased to 30 minutes
* Interlined with 2 Main at Heart Lake Terminal in Weekday Evening and all day Saturday and Sunday

4 Chinguacousy
* Saturday Late Evening and all day Sunday frequency increased to 30 minutes
* Interlined with 51 Steeles West at Shoppers World Terminal in Weekday Evening and all day Saturday and Sunday

5 Bovaird
* Weekday Peak frequency increased to 10 minutes
* Weekday mid-day frequency increased to 20 minutes

7 Kennedy
* Saturday Evening and all day Sunday frequency increased to 30 minutes

14 Torbram
* Weekday Peak frequency increased to 10 minutes
* Saturday and Sunday and Early Evening frequency increased to 30 minutes

15 Bramalea
* Saturday and Sunday Day and Early Evening frequency increased to 30 minutes

18 Dixie
* Saturday Early Evening and Sunday Mid Day and Early Evening frequency increased to 30 minutes
* Schedule adjusted in the south end loop at Dixie Road and Meyerside Drive

23 Sandalwood
* Route extended to Queen Street and Highway 50 via Cottrelle Boulevard and Via Romano Way
* NEW 23A will short turn at Lexington Road and McVean Drive during Weekday Peaks only
* Combined peak frequency increased to 15 minutes between Mount Pleasant GO station and McVean Drive

29 Williams
* Weekday Peak frequency increased to 20 minutes
* Weekday mid-day, Saturday Day, and Sunday Day frequency increased to 30 minutes
* Additional Late Evening trips added to Weekday and Saturday Early Evening service

30 Airport Road
* Weekday Peak frequency increased to 10 minutes
* Saturday Early Evening, and Sunday Day and Early Evening frequency increased to 30 minutes

31 McVean
* Weekday Peak frequency increased to 30 minutes
* Route adjusted to service new areas

50 Gore Road
* Route adjusted to run north-south on The Gore Road

51 Steeles West
* Weekday Peak frequency increased to 15 minutes
* Weekday Evening, Saturday all day and Sunday all day frequency increased to 30 minutes
* Interlined with Route 4 Chinguacousy in the off-peak at Shoppers World Terminal

101 Airport EXPRESS
* NEW Sunday Service
* Sunday service frequency of 60 minutes
 
Does BT have upcoming schedules somewhere? I can't find them.

taal said:
Thanks doady, I was actually about to say Viva is not meeting it's initial predictions ... so you really can't call it a success in that sense, particular everything other then viva blue ... anyone have the stats though to back up this claim? I did a while ago and no clue where they are anymore (what the sites are that is)
Click to expand...

You can find the some of predictions here (on page 14):

http://www.yorkregiontransit.com/whats-ahead/ExecSummary_Final.pdf

Compare it with the real ridership, it's not even close. The original prediction for 2006 with actually 19.1 miliion riders (can't find the source atm). But even the revised projection of 17.5 million was not met (actually only saw 17.1 million riders in 2006).

trudeau1982 said:
What debacle? Please elaborate.
Click to expand...

You can see that in September, BT and YRT won't even be cooperating any more. BT just got tired of YRT's reluctance to improve service so now they will provide the service on their own. Most of the 501 is actually in York Region. It is a shame.

MT has been even more conservative that YRT lately. I wonder what that will mean for the 102/502.
 
doady said:
You can see that in September, BT and YRT won't even be cooperating any more. BT just got tired of YRT's reluctance to improve service so now they will provide the service on their own. Most of the 501 is actually in York Region. It is a shame.

MT has been even more conservative that YRT lately. I wonder what that will mean for the 102/502.
Click to expand...

What are you talking about?

From the YRT Website:

"
YRT/Viva and Brampton Transit partnership speeds up service

The Regional Municipality of York and the City of Brampton have partnered to offer a new integrated rapid transit service for riders travelling between Brampton and York University.

In September, Brampton's new Züm rapid transit service will operate between downtown Brampton and York University along the Queen Street corridor in Brampton and Highway 7 in York Region. York Region's Viva orange service will continue to operate along Highway 7 between Martin Grove Road and York University.

Together, Viva orange and Brampton Züm will offer a combined service frequency of 7.5 minutes between Martin Grove Road and York University, seven days a week.

Note: From September 7 to 19, Züm service will be operated by conventional Brampton Transit vehicles with "Route 177" shown on the destination sign. Züm-branded vehicles will be in service beginning September 20.

More details on accepted fares and transfers between YRT/Viva and Brampton Transit services will be available soon. Please check back later.

View flyer (Adobe PDF)

For more information, visit the Service Changes page or view the fall edition of MyTransit. For more information on Brampton Transit services, visit the Brampton Transit website.
August 13, 2010"



That the 501 runs mostly in Brampton has nothing to do with YRT. BT simply wants to service York University, which makes total sense.
 
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doady said:
Not sure if VIVA can be called a success when overall transit ridership growth in York has been steadily slowing down since its introduction. The fastest ridership growth actually occurred the year before VIVA.

And of course, it isn't just the regular YRT service that has been cut back. VIVA has been cut back a lot as well (Purple used have service west of York U, and Green used to have all day service, for example).

The Zum routes make a lot more sense than the VIVA routes do though. And they are planning huge service increases for non-BRT service. Brampton is a lot more aggressive than York when it comes to transit. Just look at the route 77 debacle and you will see Brampton is much more aggressive. So there is decent chance Zum won't be a failure like VIVA.
Click to expand...

Just curious, if you take the numbers of just YRT the year before VIVA was introduced, and the numbers of YRT + VIVA every year since it was introduced, are the numbers increasing or decreasing? I guess what I'm asking is are VIVA's numbers increasing faster than YRT's numbers are decreasing? Because if the overall trend is still positive, isn't that a good thing, regardless of the decline in YRT service? If the overall trend is negative, then yes there is a problem.
 
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