Toronto Billy Bishop Toronto City Airport | ?m | ?s | Ports Toronto | Arup

innsertnamehere said:
signals and trackage cost something like $20 million per km, stations are typically in the $100-$150 million area. Large stations such as ones with underground bus terminals can run upwards of $200 million. Most of Eglintons stations are probably closer to $100 million.

Then there are trains, tail tracks, crossovers, etc. that all add costs as well.
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Lets look at the costs

$60M / km tunnelling ($40M/km is stated below, but I added for the TBM and launch site.
$20M / km tracks and signals
$100M / km stations ($100M for Eglinton with stations every km, or station at 1.5 km ave for Spadina).

That still only equals $180M / km. What represents the other 50% of the cost. I don't think trains cost that much.
 
BurlOak said:
That still only equals $180M / km. What represents the other 50% of the cost. I don't think trains cost that much.
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$150 million per kilometre is probably more realistic for stations. Emergency exits will be necessary if stations are 1 km apart.

Trains? They added 10 trains for Spadina. The latest cost for 10 trains was $176,567,020 for the March 2014 of an additional 10 sets. That's about $20 million per kilometre. Similarly, if the 76 Bombardier Flexity vehicles for Eglinton are $5 million each, then that's also $20 million/km over the 19-km line.

There's also train storage and maintenance facilities. The yard will be at least $200 million, probably closer to $300 million. That's another $15 million per kilometre.

Costs working underground are going to be a lot more than on the surface. For a start, the Health & Safety regulations are much more complex for working in a confined space.

Ventilation systems. Fire systems. ...
 
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BurlOak said:
Lets look at the costs

$60M / km tunnelling ($40M/km is stated below, but I added for the TBM and launch site.
$20M / km tracks and signals
$100M / km stations ($100M for Eglinton with stations every km, or station at 1.5 km ave for Spadina).

That still only equals $180M / km. What represents the other 50% of the cost. I don't think trains cost that much.
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Eglinton has more than one station per km, and Spadinas stations all qualify under "fancy" stations, so are closer to $200. add in cost for trains, train storage, tail tracks, crossovers, interchange stations, etc. and you get $300-$350 million pretty quickly.
 
kEiThZ said:
The tunnel is great. Wonder what it'll do for the traffic problems in the area.
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I would think you might see a marginal improvement. Right now pickups from the airport are "uneven" as people arrive in waves (pun unintentional) every 15 minutes on the ferry.......this causes congestion as cabs and private pickups sit waiting for the arrival of the ferry and then all leave at once......with the tunnel you will see a more even exit pattern as people choose to use the tunnel.

I would not expect it to be a massive improvement but there will be some.
 
Im a mining engineering student at UofT, I know its probably unsafe but would it ever be possible to implement planned explosive tunnelling as a cheaper/ faster method of building subways? I've been to an underground mine in Sudbury where they built their whole underground complex using explosive mining methods because it was cheaper. Im just a curious student so no need to flame me for asking this please lol.
 
am29 said:
Im a mining engineering student at UofT, I know its probably unsafe but would it ever be possible to implement planned explosive tunnelling as a cheaper/ faster method of building subways? I've been to an underground mine in Sudbury where they built their whole underground complex using explosive mining methods because it was cheaper. Im just a curious student so no need to flame me for asking this please lol.
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I doubt it is a faster or cheaper method, especially considering the material we're dealing with in Toronto

AoD
 
The method of tunneling is largely decided by the material you are tunneling through.
Toronto has to deal with a lot of sand and silt and clay that are relatively unstable. TBMs are good for that, as they install tunnel liners as you go, minimizing the amount of time the soil is exposed.

In Ottawa, they're mostly digging through limestone, using traditional mining equipment. They had to redesign the tunnel to surface sooner at U of Ottawa, because the soil conditions there couldn't support the mining technique being used. Even then they had a sinkhole problem where there had been some undocumented local excavation.
 
Just an update from an infrastructure trade journal re: the terminal sale. Elsewhere, Dec. 9 was identified as the date by which bids were to have been received, but I haven't heard anything further. Based on the political and business uncertainty, I would be surprised if Porter $750mm out of this process (although I bet they're actually just looking to pay back some of that mezzanine debt, maybe with some of the proceeds being contingent on de-risking).

Dec. 5: Billy Bishop terminal sale advances

Three teams are involved in the auction for the Billy Bishop passenger terminal in downtown Toronto, InfraAmericas has learned.

Several industry sources have indicated that Ferrovial, Brookfield and Macquarie are pursuing the asset. The firms declined to comment.

Several Canadian pension fund have dropped out of the running, InfraAmericas understands.

InfraAmericas understands the asset is valued at approximately CAD 750m (USD 660m). Questions remain regarding the airport’s growth potential, since Porter Aviation is the only airline. There are also concerns regarding the impact on passenger volumes at Billy Bishop, since the opening of the Toronto Pearson International Airport Rail Link will reduce travel time to Pearson International. A market source told InfraAmericas there is also concern over the need for a federal government guarantee to protect investors should the the airline go under.

Final bids are due before Christmas. A winning bidder is expected shortly after final bids are lodged, as InfraAmericas previously reported.

Porter Aviation, owner of the airport terminal, announced the launch of its auction process at the start of September. RBC and Barclays are advising. Norton Rose is providing legal advice.
 
BTW, isn't it remarkable how the TPA has realized over the past year that it ought not be publicly seen to be leading the charge to fight all of Porter's battles? It's almost like the TPA hired a PR firm that doesn't have its head up its ass.
 
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