Toronto Billy Bishop Toronto City Airport | ?m | ?s | Ports Toronto | Arup

This is another reason to close down the airport. 3 couriers now have not made money there, come on people enough is enough. Then the question would be what to turn it into after the airport is done.

1626797763294.png
 
robmausser said:
Stopped on Family Guy the other night. I guess at least in this Universe Billy Bishop already has Jets landing at the airport!
View attachment 320779
Click to expand...
Two of the Diamond-Schmitt images for Therme-Ontario Place, and part of their video, also have a jet taking off from the Island Airport.
urbantoronto.ca

New and Revamped Attractions Announced for Ontario Place | UrbanToronto

Three winning bidders will each redevelop portions of Ontario Place. They are the Écorécréo Group of Montréal who will build an outdoor adventure park, Live Nation Entertainment who will rebuild and enhance Budweiser Stage so it can function year-round, and the Therme Group of Vienna who will...
urbantoronto.ca urbantoronto.ca
If the Toronto Indy continues, I wonder if using the Island Airport, in a similar manner that Cleveland's race was held at Burke Lakefront Airport, might make more sense than setting up all those concrete blocks around Exhibition Place and Lake Shore Blvd? It's not like the Island Airport has a huge number of flights that would be missed on one weekend a year, particularly with Porter about to start also using Pearson in 2022. It might even be possible to set up the track in a way that the grandstands, pit lane, etc., were far enough away from the runway that a few planes could still land and take off during a 45 minute lunch break for the on-track racing, and resume again in the evening and maybe early morning before 8 or 9 a.m.
But it would likely have it to involve repaving all of the taxiways and roads that would be used, and working out how all the equipment and people would get there, although the crowds for the race in recent years appear to be only somewhere between ten and twenty thousand. It would also look better to TV viewers as a place to showcase the city.
 
Last edited:
Pierre Poilievre is saying he will allow jets out of Billy Bishop if elected.

toronto.ctvnews.ca

Pierre Poilievre says he would allow jets to fly in and out of Toronto's Billy Bishop airport if elected

Conservative leadership candidate Pierre Poilievre says that if elected Prime Minister he would make changes to Toronto's Billy Bishop airport to allow jets to fly in and out of the downtown core.
toronto.ctvnews.ca toronto.ctvnews.ca

Not sure how this works with tripartite agreement. But I presume if the feds, province and port authority are onboard, the city will have a tough time blocking it.

Should have designed the standards around noise contours than which engines are used.
 
kEiThZ said:
Pierre Poilievre is saying he will allow jets out of Billy Bishop if elected.

toronto.ctvnews.ca

Pierre Poilievre says he would allow jets to fly in and out of Toronto's Billy Bishop airport if elected

Conservative leadership candidate Pierre Poilievre says that if elected Prime Minister he would make changes to Toronto's Billy Bishop airport to allow jets to fly in and out of the downtown core.
toronto.ctvnews.ca toronto.ctvnews.ca

Not sure how this works with tripartite agreement. But I presume if the feds, province and port authority are onboard, the city will have a tough time blocking it.

Should have designed the standards around noise contours than which engines are used.
Click to expand...

Tory hasn’t been a reliable anti-jet politician either, and he son was working for Deluce for a while. Now if Ford gives him a veto over whatever council decides, and Skippy wins the leadership and the next election in 3 years, it’s likely, at least for a one-year window.
 
ShonTron said:
Tory hasn’t been a reliable anti-jet politician either, and he son was working for Deluce for a while. Now if Ford gives him a veto over whatever council decides, and Skippy wins the leadership and the next election in 3 years, it’s likely, at least for a one-year window.
Click to expand...
Porter has purchased a ton of new jets lately as well, with plans to operate them out of Pearson, at least for now. I can see them renewing a push for jets at the airport soon, particularly if the federal level switches to PC in 2025. By then Porter will have a fairly large existing fleet to transfer right away to the airport.
 
Without rehashing the underlying issue yet again........

I would remind everyone that the lease of the Island Airport lands from the City expires in 2033, there are currently no public negotiations on its future.

Jets require a runway extension which has not yet been the subject of a regulatory review process, never mind construction/tendering

The operator of BB is not getting along w/Porter particularly well, which is one reason for the shift of operations towards Pearson.
 
Last edited:
The E195-E2s that Porter have a slightly worse noise profile than the CS200/A220-100 originally proposed a decade ago. The runway requirements are substantially worse. A full load departure would require an extension that is almost double what Porter wanted for the CSeries. Even if they don't need the full load, they'll need more than their previously proposed extension.

This is why I wish the Liberals hadn't sat on their hands for 7 years on both HFR and the Pearson Transit Hub. Those projects with RER would have provided an excuse to close YTZ or at least would have provided an alternative to Porter @ YTZ.

I don't buy that the 2033 deadline will be all that important. No federal government is going to allow the only airline that is keeping competition in the Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal triangle, to close down. Especially not when there's no other competitive alternative like a train.
 
Northern Light said:
... The operator of BB is not getting along w/Porter particularly well, which is one reason for the shift of operations towards Pearson.
Click to expand...
Porter wanted the runway extended and jets allowed, but that was back when they also still owned the terminal. Since they no longer own the terminal and will be using Pearson for the jets they're buying, I'm not sure if there's anyone else interested (as in any other airline or the present terminal owner).
kEiThZ said:
The E195-E2s that Porter have a slightly worse noise profile than the CS200/A220-100 originally proposed a decade ago. The runway requirements are substantially worse. A full load departure would require an extension that is almost double what Porter wanted for the CSeries. Even if they don't need the full load, they'll need more than their previously proposed extension.
Click to expand...
This says "KLM Cityhopper will be the first to fly the E195-E2 to LCY after certification", and the LCY runway is only 1,508 meters (just under 5,000 feet), which I think is about what Porter thought they would need for the CS100, and Swiss flies that (now branded as Airbus A220-100) into LCY. News stories at the time said Porter wanted the runway extended by "168 metres at each end".
simpleflying.com

On Board The 1st Ever Embraer E195-E2 Flight To London City Airport

As the biggest jet of the E2 family, The E195-E2, became the largest aircraft to land at LCY.
simpleflying.com simpleflying.com
 
Last edited:
SubHuman said:
Porter wanted the runway extended and jets allowed, but that was back when they also still owned the terminal. Since they no longer own the terminal and will be using Pearson for the jets they're buying, I'm not sure if there's anyone else interested (as in any other airline or the present terminal owner).

This says "KLM Cityhopper will be the first to fly the E195-E2 to LCY after certification", and the LCY runway is only 1,508 meters (just under 5,000 feet).
simpleflying.com

On Board The 1st Ever Embraer E195-E2 Flight To London City Airport

As the biggest jet of the E2 family, The E195-E2, became the largest aircraft to land at LCY.
simpleflying.com simpleflying.com
Click to expand...
Good thing YTZ's is 1,200 metres long!
 
SubHuman said:
This says "KLM Cityhopper will be the first to fly the E195-E2 to LCY after certification", and the LCY runway is only 1,508 meters (just under 5,000 feet), which I think is about what Porter thought they would need for the CS100, and Swiss flies that (now branded as Airbus A220-100) into LCY. News stories at the time said Porter wanted the runway extended by "168 metres at each end".
Click to expand...

innsertnamehere said:
Good thing YTZ's is 1,200 metres long!
Click to expand...

The extension needed is very much dependent on how far they want to fly and the balanced field length needed with an appropriate safety margin.


For context, the Takeoff Distance Required (TODR) at Max Take-off Weight (MTOW), assuming ICAO Standard Atmosphere and Sea Level (YTZ is 252 ft above sea level):

E195-E2: 6460 ft
CS100/A220-100: 4800 ft

If you look at the previous request for 168m at each end, this would yield a runway length of 5090 ft. Which is 290 ft longer than the TODR for MTOW. So at less than MTOW, they still get a BFL that allows for substantial range. With just that extension, they probably would have been able to fly a full load of passengers to Florida with an A220.

With the E195-E2 needing a third more runway for nearly the same payload and range, there's almost no way Porter doesn't ask for a longer extension this time, if they decide to go for round 2 of this fight. Effectively, a shorter runway is substantially more limiting to an E195-E2 than it is to an A220-100.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top