Billy Bishop Airport Expansion?

[nfitz]

That’s longer than Key West’s 5,076 ft, where both types operate.

If they are half-empty.

Besides, it's not a question of runway length. I don't think that planes that are significantly louder than the current turboprops will be allowed to land regularly.

 

[Admiral Beez]

If they are half-empty.

The airlines clearly have a low-weight model that works for Key West traffic.

I don't think that planes that are significantly louder than the current turboprops will be allowed to land regularly.

The government can change the noise requirements, just as they're changing the runway length. And besides, while louder than Porter's Embraer E195-E2, the A319Neo is quieter than Air Canada's standard small jet, the CRJ200, so I don't see why it can't operate from a 5,500 ft. runway at YTZ.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Airliners for us plebs aside, the big boost at YTZ is going to be in private jets. Don't be surprised if the elite demand that the apron space be increased.

 

[lenaitch]

The airlines clearly have a low-weight model that works for Key West traffic.

One thing I could find is the runway weight limits for Billy Bishop. It seems they aren't published because it is a bit unique in that it is restricted by aircraft type.

Airliners for us plebs aside, the big boost at YTZ is going to be in private jets. Don't be surprised if the elite demand that the apron space be increased.

At least it's not Augusta GA:

Augusta Regional Airport Swamped With Over 2,000 Private Jets As High-Rollers Fly In For The Masters

A video from TheVIPSeat on Instagram shows many of the 2,000 private jets which have descended on Augusta Regional/Bush Field during Masters week

www.golfmonthly.com

 

[PL1]

Proper noise-based restrictions will keep out many business jets

 

[Admiral Beez]

Proper noise-based restrictions will keep out many business jets

The high-bypass turbofans used on modern business jets like the newer Gulfstream, Dassault Falcon, Bombardier Global models reduce noise significantly. I expect we'll see a dozen or more business jets operating daily from YTZ.

 

[SubHuman]

One thing I could find is the runway weight limits for Billy Bishop. It seems they aren't published because it is a bit unique in that it is restricted by aircraft type...

FWIW, This --

https://assets.nationbuilder.com/wa...BBTCA-Infrastructure_Requirements-FINAL_1.pdf

from 2015 claimed that --

current airfield pavement does not meet the weight requirements for jets

along with other possible infrastructure requirements.

Just for another comparison to London City (LCY), in Aug 2024 plans were approved to increase passenger cap from 6.5 million a year to 9 million.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clyw80v45jeo

https://news.ontario.ca/en/release/1007209/ontario-expanding-billy-bishop-airport

Billy Bishop Airport currently serves two million passengers each year — a number that is expected to rise to 10 million under the Toronto Port Authority’s modernization plan.

 

[EBT]

Airliners for us plebs aside, the big boost at YTZ is going to be in private jets. Don't be surprised if the elite demand that the apron space be increased.

I predicted this in this post > https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/billy-bishop-airport-expansion.43019/post-2370359

Toronto has what Chicago only wishes it still had. A lakefront airport mere minutes to the financial downtown core. If expanded Billy Bishop would become to Toronto what Teterboro is to New York. It would result in a major economic shot in the arm for Toronto at a time when we badly need a shot in the arm. If expansion plans go ahead the expanded runway will be able to accommodate the Global 8000 and Gulfstream G800, private jets with a range of 8000 miles! Downtown Toronto would be just mere minutes to an airport offering non-stop flights to Hong Kong and beyond.

 

[Jonny5]

Downtown Toronto would be just mere minutes to an airport

Real estate agent voice: "It's only steps away from all of downtown!"

 

[Ward8]

Toronto has what Chicago only wishes it still had. A lakefront airport mere minutes to the financial downtown core. If expanded Billy Bishop would become to Toronto what Teterboro is to New York. It would result in a major economic shot in the arm for Toronto at a time when we badly need a shot in the arm. If expansion plans go ahead the expanded runway will be able to accommodate the Global 8000 and Gulfstream G800, private jets with a range of 8000 miles! Downtown Toronto would be just mere minutes to an airport offering non-stop flights to Hong Kong and beyond.

Bulldozing the airport and doing any number of things with that land would be an economic shot in the arm far greater than having a boutique private airport for elites, most of whom would be flying to Bracebridge, not Hong Kong. Not to mention, downtown Toronto being 'minutes away' from the exact same amount of time in takes to get to Pearson.

Teterboro is not an economic driver for New York. It exists because of all the other things that make New York a place that the elite want to live. It's not even all that close to New York, and is probably a good argument that, if the demand for this really exists, the airstrip could really be anywhere, and we could leverage our most valuable assets to their full potential.

 

[mburrrrr]

FOG post

One foggy day years ago we had to circle the airport a number of times with a great view of downtown but the pilot couldn’t see the airport. Ended up in Hamilton and bussed back to Billy Bishop.

Today while at Cherry Beach Sports field I could hear the planes but could barely see them overhead.
So I asked ChatGPT- “How many flight per year are delayed or cancelled in and out of billy bishop airport due to fog.”
What the data actually shows

• The airport handles roughly ~98 flights per day (~36,000/year)
• About 16% of flights are delayed (all causes)
• About 2.4% are cancelled overall

That translates roughly to:

• ~5,500–6,000 delayed flights/year (all causes)
• ~850–900 cancelled flights/year (all causes)

How much of that is fog?
Fog is one of the main weather issues at Billy Bishop (because it sits right on Lake Ontario), but:

• Weather (fog, snow, wind, storms combined) is typically only a fraction of total delays.
• On a single dense fog day, about 86 flights were impacted (delays + cancellations combined)

A realistic yearly estimate for fog specifically
Toronto gets multiple fog events per year (especially fall + spring). If you scale that 86-flight example across typical fog days:

• ~5–15 significant fog days/year
• × ~50–100 affected flights per event

Rough estimate:

• ~300 to 1,200 flights/year impacted by fog (delayed or cancelled)

Important nuance

• Billy Bishop is more sensitive to fog than Pearson because:
  • Short runway
  • Strict operating hours (curfew)
  • Limited ability to “wait it out”
• So fog disruptions can cascade into cancellations faster than at larger airports.

Bottom line

• Total delays/cancellations (all causes): ~6,000–7,000 flights/year
• Fog-related impacts (estimate): a few hundred up to ~1,000 flights/year

If you want, I can break this down by season (fall vs winter) or compare fog impact at Billy Bishop vs Pearson—that’s where the differences get really interesting.

Then I Ask ChatGPT about Fog.
Typical comparison (approximate)

• Billy Bishop: ~20–40 foggy days/year
• Pearson: ~10–20 foggy days/year

(Exact counts vary year to year, but Billy Bishop consistently leads.)
Practical impact
Even when both airports get fog:

• Billy Bishop is more operationally affected (short runway, stricter visibility minimums)
• Pearson can often keep operating in conditions that shut Billy Bishop down

Bottom line
If you’re choosing based on reliability in fog-prone seasons (spring/fall),
Pearson is generally the safer bet
Billy Bishop is more likely to see fog-related delays or cancellations

Maybe I’ll search snow issues next.

 

[generalcanada]

FOG post
View attachment 729588
One foggy day years ago we had to circle the airport a number of times with a great view of downtown but the pilot couldn’t see the airport. Ended up in Hamilton and bussed back to Billy Bishop.

Today while at Cherry Beach Sports field I could hear the planes but could barely see them overhead.
So I asked ChatGPT- “How many flight per year are delayed or cancelled in and out of billy bishop airport due to fog.”
What the data actually shows

• The airport handles roughly ~98 flights per day (~36,000/year)
• About 16% of flights are delayed (all causes)
• About 2.4% are cancelled overall

That translates roughly to:

• ~5,500–6,000 delayed flights/year (all causes)
• ~850–900 cancelled flights/year (all causes)

How much of that is fog?
Fog is one of the main weather issues at Billy Bishop (because it sits right on Lake Ontario), but:

• Weather (fog, snow, wind, storms combined) is typically only a fraction of total delays.
• On a single dense fog day, about 86 flights were impacted (delays + cancellations combined)

A realistic yearly estimate for fog specifically
Toronto gets multiple fog events per year (especially fall + spring). If you scale that 86-flight example across typical fog days:

• ~5–15 significant fog days/year
• × ~50–100 affected flights per event

Rough estimate:

• ~300 to 1,200 flights/year impacted by fog (delayed or cancelled)

Important nuance

• Billy Bishop is more sensitive to fog than Pearson because:
  • Short runway
  • Strict operating hours (curfew)
  • Limited ability to “wait it out”
• So fog disruptions can cascade into cancellations faster than at larger airports.

Bottom line

• Total delays/cancellations (all causes): ~6,000–7,000 flights/year
• Fog-related impacts (estimate): a few hundred up to ~1,000 flights/year

If you want, I can break this down by season (fall vs winter) or compare fog impact at Billy Bishop vs Pearson—that’s where the differences get really interesting.

Then I Ask ChatGPT about Fog.
Typical comparison (approximate)

• Billy Bishop: ~20–40 foggy days/year
• Pearson: ~10–20 foggy days/year

(Exact counts vary year to year, but Billy Bishop consistently leads.)
Practical impact
Even when both airports get fog:

• Billy Bishop is more operationally affected (short runway, stricter visibility minimums)
• Pearson can often keep operating in conditions that shut Billy Bishop down

Bottom line
If you’re choosing based on reliability in fog-prone seasons (spring/fall),
Pearson is generally the safer bet
Billy Bishop is more likely to see fog-related delays or cancellations

Maybe I’ll search snow issues next.

View attachment 729589View attachment 729590View attachment 729593

Gotta call out chatgpt hallucinations when i see them

 

[kEiThZ]

There's no city served by BB that isn't served by Pearson and is more convenient to access.

Quite convenient from the Eastern GTA. Especially by transit.

That’s longer than Key West’s 5,076 ft, where both types operate.

That is probbably contingent on load and waivers. Regulators have been getting quite strict on runway end zones lately.

 

[Admiral Beez]

That is probbably contingent on load and waivers. Regulators have been getting quite strict on runway end zones lately.

Perhaps they need to focus more on runway vehicle incursions? There's been two more in the USA since the JFK firetruck.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Proper noise-based restrictions will keep out many business jets

Well, we know one business jet will have VIP access and apron space at YTZ.

Ontario buys used $28.9M private jet for Doug Ford: sources

A senior official confirmed that the province this week took possession of a 2016 Bombardier Challenger 650 executive jet.

www.thestar.com

Paywall free: https://archive.is/nws21

Maybe this was always part of the plan, so the Premier can beat the weekend cottage traffic and fly his jet from YTZ to Muskoka Airport (YQA). The latter sees frequent business jet traffic.