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Bike Transit

Compared to Europe and the U.S., our speed limits are already ridiculously low - designed more for ticket revenue than efficient traffic movement.

But as usual, all solutions are about dumbing down the rules to the lowest common denominator. There should be fewer signs, fewer rules and less regulation. Not more.

Triage will prune the flock of idiots.
 
Compared to Europe and the U.S., our speed limits are already ridiculously low - designed more for ticket revenue than efficient traffic movement.

Maybe on expressways, but not really within built up areas. I don't think we have too many 30 km/hour zones here. When I was in the Netherlands recently I saw 30 km/h speed limits all over the place. The UK has been considering whether to lower the default speed limit in town to 32 km/h (20mph). The default 50km/h standard is the same as we have.

And even expressways aren't always so fast, the Netherlands has been reducing speed limits for suburban expressways to 80km/h. There's a link to a presentation which talks about this in the 401 6 lanes thread. And our de facto speed limit is 120km/h on expressways, not that far off; consider that European motorways have much less tolerance and a lot of speed cameras.
 
Last year when I drove along Mulholland Dr. (at the top of a mountain, for Gawd's sake!) in L.A., the speed limit was 35 mph. In a Mustang, I could barely maintain that speed without going over a cliff! The whole time I kept thinking, "God Bless America! If this were Ontario, the speed limit would be 35 km/hr. and there'd be concrete barriers everywhere!"

We are wait too coddled in Canada. Safety-zealots are everywhere. God forbid if a citizen were to actually have to make a decision or judgment for theirselves!
 
First of all, a cyclist and/or a pedestrian is not required to show ID to a police officer: name and address are sufficient for constitutional purposes.

Secondly, a fine applied to a cyclist who is also a driver, does not apply to their driving record (see first point).

Thirdly, the velocity of the bicycle at a stop before a turn on a red (or stop sign) is negligible (it is obviously close to 0 m/s, based on a second standing stop) - on a green one is allowed to pedal/drive through if the way is clear.
 
First of all, a cyclist and/or a pedestrian is not required to show ID to a police officer: name and address are sufficient for constitutional purposes.

Secondly, a fine applied to a cyclist who is also a driver, does not apply to their driving record (see first point).

Thirdly, the velocity of the bicycle at a stop before a turn on a red (or stop sign) is negligible (it is obviously close to 0 m/s, based on a second standing stop) - on a green one is allowed to pedal/drive through if the way is clear.

All three of your points are wrong,

If a police officer writes a cyclist a ticket, yes they don't need to show a Drivers license, but if a officer does not believe that the person is who they say they are, then the cyclist can be arrested until the identity is confirmed, but that is rare.

the same rules of the road for cars also apply to cyclists under the highway traffic act, demerit points given to a cyclist will also apply to that persons driving record.

A stop sign means stop, meaning that the tires must not be turning, behind the stop line, the sidewalk or the edge of the cross street.
 
A stop sign means stop, meaning that the tires must not be turning, behind the stop line, the sidewalk or the edge of the cross street.

Also one of many reasons why gasoline is being wasted. It takes a motor vehicle more fuel to move from a full stop, and go through the lower gears until they can reach cruising speed. Usually at which point, they have to brake again to come to a full stop. And again waste fuel in the lower gears.

It would also be a reason not to use a bicycle. It is harder to move your bicycle from a full stop, and go through the lower gears until their also reach cruising speed. And again brake for another full stop. Too tiring, using more fuel (food) on a bicycle because of all the stop signs.
 
All three of your points are wrong,

If a police officer writes a cyclist a ticket, yes they don't need to show a Drivers license, but if a officer does not believe that the person is who they say they are, then the cyclist can be arrested until the identity is confirmed, but that is rare.

the same rules of the road for cars also apply to cyclists under the highway traffic act, demerit points given to a cyclist will also apply to that persons driving record.

A stop sign means stop, meaning that the tires must not be turning, behind the stop line, the sidewalk or the edge of the cross street.

The point is, one does not need to show ID.

I'm aware that cyclists must obey the rules of the HTA, but demerit points given to a cyclist cannot be applied to the same person's driving record.

I'm not disagreeing what a stop sign means, but a cyclist can easily do a standing stop where the tires will not be turning for approximately a second.

I'm going to have to do some research on this though...what are your sources?
 
Point 1

HTA said:
Cyclist to identify self

218. (1) A police officer who finds any person contravening this Act or any municipal by-law regulating traffic while in charge of a bicycle may require that person to stop and to provide identification of himself or herself. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 218 (1).

Idem

(2) Every person who is required to stop, by a police officer acting under subsection (1), shall stop and identify himself or herself to the police officer. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 218 (2).

Idem

(3) For the purposes of this section, giving one’s correct name and address is sufficient identification. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 218 (3).

Idem

(4) A police officer may arrest without warrant any person who does not comply with subsection (2). R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 218 (4).

I don't believe my first point was incorrect, as most people I think, myself included, would give the officer the correct name and address.
 
2nd Point

HTA said:
56. (1) The Lieutenant Governor in Council may make regulations providing for a demerit point system for drivers of motor vehicles or of street cars. 2005, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 5.

A bicycle is not a motor-vehicle, nor a street car. Also, if a cyclist does not need to show a driver's license there is no way a police officer can charge demerit points to that person's license.
 
^Unfortunately that first point can be lost on those cyclists who believe it to be their right to hurtle along sidewalks or drive their bikes on the crosswalks of busy intersections.
 
2nd Point



A bicycle is not a motor-vehicle, nor a street car. Also, if a cyclist does not need to show a driver's license there is no way a police officer can charge demerit points to that person's license.

That section does not say a HTA charge while operating a bicycle does not apply to that persons driving record. That section refers to the government being able to assign a demerit point penalty to each charge under the HTA

A bicycle is considered a vehicle per the HTA, and a person operating a bicycle is also considered a driver per the HTA

and a police officer can look up almost any data on a person using the police computer system, including driving records,
 
A bicycle is considered a vehicle per the HTA, and a person operating a bicycle is also considered a driver per the HTA

But the cyclist is not a driver of a motor vehicle, but rather an operator of a bicycle, therein lies the difference. Just as a pedestrian cannot be charged with motor vehicle infractions when they're are not operating one, the type of vehicle (either streetcar, motor-vehicle, or horse) defines the laws applied.

If you still believe that cyclists can be charged with demerit points, I strongly disagree.


and a police officer can look up almost any data on a person using the police computer system, including driving records,

The question is not if it's possible, but rather is it right or legal that an officer can apply demerit points unknowingly to the defendant.

I'm not trying to be an apologist for cyclists, but all users of the road should be aware of their rights and responsibilities.
 
Also one of many reasons why gasoline is being wasted. It takes a motor vehicle more fuel to move from a full stop, and go through the lower gears until they can reach cruising speed. Usually at which point, they have to brake again to come to a full stop. And again waste fuel in the lower gears.

It would also be a reason not to use a bicycle. It is harder to move your bicycle from a full stop, and go through the lower gears until their also reach cruising speed. And again brake for another full stop. Too tiring, using more fuel (food) on a bicycle because of all the stop signs.

Who among us who has driven bicycles on the street actually comes to a full stop at stop sign if there is no traffic?
It's too bad common sense is not allowed in our traffic laws; rather, everything is 'dumbed down' to the lowest common denominator. There are plenty of side streets where neither motorists or cyclists should be required to come to a complete stop, yet the sign is there anyway.
One of the most irksome 3-way stop signs in the Known Universe is at Davenport and Huron St. (just west of the awful S curve Davenport makes north of Dupont). Think of the millions of litres of fuel (and exhaust gases) that have been wasted there over the past 27 years since that stupid stop sign was put in! Not many bicycles stop there, either - nor should they, IMO.
 
Is a bicycle a toy or a vehicle?

From ComputeOrlandoBlog:

Talk about bifurcation. The US law can’t agree on anything.

Many people think that a bicycle is a children’s toy. As such, it should be riden on a sidewalk or somewhere else and that it should never, ever, come in contact with a car or traffic.

There is precedent for that idea. Unusual laws took effect in the 1960’s where the Federal Government took charge of certain vehicles and began mandating something new to the industry — safety. Crazy things began to be required, like safety belts in cars. But the law was fuzzy when it came to bicycles.

Imagine walking into a car dealership and wanting to buy a new car. After you pick out the one you want, you tell the salesman “Never mind the headlights, I don’t need them, I don’t drive at night.†and see how far you would get. Same with the horn, “Why do I need to pay for a horn? I never honk at anybody.†That’s the way it is in the US when you buy a bicycle.

Other countries see things differently and they have international laws to support their position. Germany has regulations for bicycles, the same sort of regulations that they have for cars. They rely on the Vienna Convention of 1968 which states that bicycles are vehicles.

The US is also a signatory to the Vienna Convention, but has relegated bicycles to the same agency that regulates toys, the CPSC. There was a big stink raised, back in 1975, by people that said that the CPSC was the wrong agency to regulate bicycles, but they (Forester) lost.

Since then, though, in all 50 states, bicycles are called vehicles. The issue has become a matter of states rights. All the states see bicycles a vehicles — the international law calls them vehicles — but the US Government does not.

Don’t you think that is odd?
 

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