Bicycle Paths

[waterloowarrior]

I agree there should be training for using bikes and navigating in traffic... perhaps built into the school system like in some other places. And like TKTKTK said, it should be better emphasized in driver education. I don't remember learning anything about bicycles or how to share the road/navigate around bicycles in drivers ed. It's way too easy to get a license in Ontario.

 

[gboykovekin]

How many drivers go over the speed limit and/or do rolling stops... how many pedestrians jaywalk. it's pointless to debate which 'group' disobeys the HTA more...

Not entirely pointless, as jaywalking is not inherently illegal, only in certain circumstances.

 

[nfitz]

How many drivers go over the speed limit and/or do rolling stops... how many pedestrians jaywalk.

What are you, some kind of Yank? Jaywalking, in itself, isn't even a crime!

It's pointless to debate which 'group' disobeys the HTA more...

I'm not so sure - doing so will identify where extra regulations, enforcement, and licensing would be more worthwhile.

Perhaps it is only a small portion that cycle down sidewalks yelling at pedestrians, but compare other things. Most cars signal when turning left at an intersection. Most bicycles fail to signal. I can't remember the last time I saw a car in daylight hours run a red light in the middle of a city. I've seen bicycles do this frequently. And it's unheard of for a motor vehicle to be driving at night without lights.

I'm not blaming it all on cyclists - but I think that the biggest problem we have is the lack of training for cyclists - and maybe some kind of licensing scheme would reduce the number of injuries; not that should take aware from trying to deal with car issues.

 

[waterloowarrior]

I mostly meant crossing against the light.. is that not jaywalking (and illegal?)

Perhaps it is only a small portion that cycle down sidewalks yelling at pedestrians, but compare other things. Most cars signal when turning left at an intersection. Most bicycles fail to signal. I can't remember the last time I saw a car in daylight hours run a red light in the middle of a city. I've seen bicycles do this frequently. And it's unheard of for a motor vehicle to be driving at night without lights.

I'm not blaming it all on cyclists - but I think that the biggest problem we have is the lack of training for cyclists - and maybe some kind of licensing scheme would reduce the number of injuries; not that should take aware from trying to deal with car issues.

I see cars run red lights all the time.... not saying that people on bikes should run red lights (very dumb). re: lights.. cars come with lights built in... bikes don't. People should bike with lights though, I hate when I'm on a path (walking or biking) and suddenly there is someone in front of me without a light on.

I'd be interested to see what countries/jurisdictions require a license...

 

[nfitz]

I mostly meant crossing against the light..

Yes, section 144 of the Highway Traffic Act.

 

[nfitz]

I see cars run red lights all the time ...

In Toronto ... your standing at an interesction, the light is red one direction, and green another ... and a car comes up to the red light - which has been red for some time - and doesn't stop, but just slows down a bit and keeps going? I never seen that - well hardly ever - once or twice perhaps ...

Still in the intersection when the light turns red is something else ...

 

[cowpie]

Perhaps it is only a small portion that cycle down sidewalks yelling at pedestrians, but compare other things. Most cars signal when turning left at an intersection. Most bicycles fail to signal. I can't remember the last time I saw a car in daylight hours run a red light in the middle of a city. I've seen bicycles do this frequently. And it's unheard of for a motor vehicle to be driving at night without lights.
.

I've seen the complete opposite. One car on Steeles not only ran a red light but turned left on the red and tried to merge into traffic. That was interesting.

And consider the amount of damage done. Damage by a car is not comparable to damage by a bicycle.

And I don't know anyone who would actually use a left-turn lane in the first place on a bicycle at any real intersection. That is crazy to me.

 

[nfitz]

And I don't know anyone who would actually use a left-turn lane in the first place on a bicycle at any real intersection. That is crazy to me.

How else do you turn left at an intersection ... without using the sidewalk at least? I've always done it this way.

 

[TKTKTK]

I've seen the complete opposite. One car on Steeles not only ran a red light but turned left on the red and tried to merge into traffic. That was interesting.

I have never seen anything like that. While I see the below nearly daily:

And I don't know anyone who would actually use a left-turn lane in the first place on a bicycle at any real intersection. That is crazy to me.

 

[dunkalunk]

And I don't know anyone who would actually use a left-turn lane in the first place on a bicycle at any real intersection. That is crazy to me.

I guess it has to do with your comfort levels.

I do it all the time, sometimes I even turn left when there is no left turn lane, and stop all traffic to do so. However, I do make sure to signal my intent, this is just common courtesy, in the same way that I get mad when drivers don't signal.

One of the major things I find as a deterrent to biking in the city is the pollution, especially from tailpipes and especially on smog days. I have asthma, so I've invested in a face mask. But in the summer, having a carbon filter attached to your face with a strip of silicone can get incredibly hot.

Electric vehicles cannot come soon enough.

 

[nfitz]

So how DOES one turn left at an intersection without using the left-turn lane? At least if there is traffic. I'm mystified!

 

[cowpie]

I have never seen anything like that. While I see the below nearly daily:

How can you see the above daily when the amount of cars on the road outweighs bicycles by about 1000 to 1--moreso if you go north of Yonge and St Clair. Let's agree that 1% of "people" break the rules, no matter their modality of transit. Logically, that means a greater amount of cars are breaking the rules, because 1% of 1000 is greater than 1% of 5.

nfitz: Exactly--I mean dismounting and using the sidewalk. I think there is too much of a chance of being rear-ended with the lack of brake lights, while also trying to signal a left turn. It happens in a car too often, so I would hate for it to happen on a bike.

 

[rbt]

One of the major things I find as a deterrent to biking in the city is the pollution, especially from tailpipes and especially on smog days. I have asthma, so I've invested in a face mask. But in the summer, having a carbon filter attached to your face with a strip of silicone can get incredibly hot.

Electric vehicles cannot come soon enough.

It may not help that much. The particulates in the air (black fine powder is irritates my lungs; the gas mixture isn't much of an issue) seems to come from the rubber tires and brake pads as much as anywhere else.

 

[TKTKTK]

How can you see the above daily when the amount of cars on the road outweighs bicycles by about 1000 to 1--moreso if you go north of Yonge and St Clair. Let's agree that 1% of "people" break the rules, no matter their modality of transit. Logically, that means a greater amount of cars are breaking the rules, because 1% of 1000 is greater than 1% of 5.

I think you need to re-read what I wrote. I said I see cyclists turning left from the centre/left-turning lane daily, who I've never seen anyone who "not only ran a red light but turned left on the red and tried to merge into traffic."

On the face of things, your made up number seems to make sense. But the reality for most people downtown is that we actually see cyclists breaking the law (and the above is not an example of that) more frequently, and far more brazenly, than drivers or pedestrians. Given that cyclists make up a significantly smaller population than drivers, it's safe to assume that a higher percentage of them are breaking the law.

But...who really cares? We're just passing the blame from one group to the next without actually solving any problem. The way forward is for both sides to accept responsibility for themselves and others on the road. The experience should be communal, not combative.

nfitz: Exactly--I mean dismounting and using the sidewalk. I think there is too much of a chance of being rear-ended with the lack of brake lights, while also trying to signal a left turn. It happens in a car too often, so I would hate for it to happen on a bike.

You need to set up predictable interactions at intersections. If cyclists are vehicles, they should be behaving as vehicles - in this case turning from the correct lane. It's unreasonable to expect people to dismount and walk their bike through intersections every time they want to turn left.

 

[confusion]

I always use the left turn lane on my bike, that being said, I see a lot of people who will go with the walk signals and then loop around and wait for the next signal instead of doing a left turn.

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