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Baby, we got a bubble!?

Ah! there you are, condo George -- our hope and ray of sunshine among the doomers and gloomers.

Pray, tell me, if the market is strong in the core, then, why so many assignment listings for MLS, Burano and othes. Believe it or not, there is even one assignment listing for the much hyped AURA.

Are they really a huge amount of assignments ? Not to my knowledge, assignments are usually driven by flippers, job loss or divorce etc. There will always be assignments in the market place because one unit is for sale at Aura I dont think that is a bad thing, the tower is 75 storeys, Maple Leaf Square maybe seeing alot of assignments now because we are a few months or close to registration and flippers dont want to pay the closing costs or they think the market will tank. I have units there and I am not selling my own opinion, why would I sell when we are going to have 4 office towers, a Ripleys Aquarium and Delta hotel tower in the area in 4 yrs. This area is just started to develop.......
 
I have units there and I am not selling my own opinion, why would I sell when we are going to have 4 office towers, a Ripleys Aquarium and Delta hotel tower in the area in 4 yrs. This area is just started to develop.......


i understand the premise of buying cheap in an area that will be gentrified;
but why would one buy and pay a premium (~$650+ PSF vs $550 PSF for other dt pre-construction vs. $400 PSF for newer resale 5 years old) for a location that will have more and MORE supply in the area ?
 
Enlighten me a bit more. If investors are buying in the core, then, how come assignments in MLS, Burano and others are not moving/sold. Some of the listings in these developments or projects are a few months old. AURA unit has been in the market for 2/3 weeks.
 
The units on that are Lanterra built will not get approval from the developer if they are listing on mls.ca, there is a clause in the agreement. Last time I checked 70 units have been assigned at Maple Leaf Square again not allowed to be on the agent market ( mls ), unlike Cordcord Adex which turned a blind eye to Luna assignments, although clause was in the agreement , builder allowed assignments with $3000 fee. At Luna , my investors were given an assignment clause amendment, allowing for assignment through mls. I know Lanterra is very strict on this, there was one listing that was on mls but reported sold with a March closing, this strategy maybe as a result of builder saying no to assignment because they checked mls and then agents neg not an assignemnt but a after final closing deal. Maple Leaf Square should close by end of yr or beginning of 2011, hence March closing. The assignment market is active, but I am not an expert on assignment you may want to consult Ken Young C21 a very good friend of mine and ask his thoughts. I am not a flipper, nor are almost all of the investors I deal with. Hope this helps
 
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i understand the premise of buying cheap in an area that will be gentrified;
but why would one buy and pay a premium (~$650+ PSF vs $550 PSF for other dt pre-construction vs. $400 PSF for newer resale 5 years old) for a location that will have more and MORE supply in the area ?

I hear you, Maple Leaf Sq assignment market is $600 - $650 and some Ice preconstruction units are $750 and Infinity resale is $550 psf. The pre const is padded for upside gains in builders eyes, Infinity vs Maple Leaf Sq well just a better buildng , look at Waterclub vs Rivera or 10 Yonge a bargain over there and its a good location, or 33 Harbour aged are not commanding big psf, higher maint, materials etc etc
 
I hear you, Maple Leaf Sq assignment market is $600 - $650 and some Ice preconstruction units are $750 and Infinity resale is $550 psf. The pre const is padded for upside gains in builders eyes, Infinity vs Maple Leaf Sq well just a better buildng , look at Waterclub vs Rivera or 10 Yonge a bargain over there and its a good location, or 33 Harbour aged are not commanding big psf, higher maint, materials etc etc

^ ^ ^ ???
 
Actually George, the reality is one is better off to buy old buildings if one really does the math. Let me preface by saying I am not advocating that, however let me give an example. Taxes are less.( say for a 1000 sq. ft condo for simplicity of numbers and price is $450 vs. new at $550/sq. ft. $100,000 difference. Condo fees are more but reality is by how much: 10cents/sq. ft or $100/month or $1200/year. Save around $900/year on tax. So $300 more/year. Even if special assessments; lets say $1000/year. Perhaps the new gets $200/month rent more so $2400 It will take 30+ years to make the difference up. I realize we can quibble about the numbers but I think you get my point.

However, if one is buying to invest and sell in the short term, then there is potentially more appreciation potential on new if one bought early from builder and prices have risen. The real question I think cdr is posing is: if we assume for a moment that prices stop appreciating after their long run, and we know they actually can go down (though we agree we are in different camps as to which way the market will go), then new purchases at these prices do not make sense.
 
Hey thank you, I try and help if I can, although my views are not the same as most here, I am sure I will be missed next week as I am out of country for one week.
 
Hey thank you, I try and help if I can, although my views are not the same as most here, I am sure I will be missed next week as I am out of country for one week.

Thanks for the timely notice. Tomorrow morning, I will buy an extra box of kleenexes in case I run out of current supply. Let's know if and when you come back.
 
Condo George, are you an artist or were you dining out on Ossington last night?

No not an artist, but a real estate broker, pls watch for my tv commercials on CP24, CTV BNN business report, Ellen, Oprah, Dancing with the stars, Canada AM and oversees satelitte channels thanks.
 
http://wwThe seller: In the hot seat
August 27, 2010

Tony Wong

BUSINESS REPORTER




When Liliana Montagliani and Pasquale Luciano listed their Mississauga home in the winter, they had high hopes for a quick sale.

“The market was very strong and we were in a great neighborhood, so we thought it would sell in a couple weeks,” said Montagliani. “We didn’t think we would be in the position we’re in today.”

In March, the four-bedroom Port Credit home listed for $900,000, but there were no takers. By May, the price had been slashed to $839,000. This month the couple cut the price to $799,999, or about $100,000 less than what they had hoped for.

“It seemed like a month ago, someone suddenly turned the lights off,” said their agent, Steven Belitsky. “Who would have thought the market would have stalled this quickly?”

Analysts have long been saying that the second half of the year would look vastly different than the first half, which saw record sales.

Sales have been falling every month for the last three months. In the first two weeks of August, sales fell by 29 per cent compared with a year earlier.

As a result, many vendors such as Montagliani and Luciano are caught in the downdraft, and have had to revise their expectations of what they can sell their homes for.

“It’s been frustrating and a little disappointing to say the least,” says Montagliani. “As a vendor you don’t want to give your home away.”

Other home owners have simply decided not to put their homes on the market. Listings were down 8 per cent during the first two weeks of the month compared with last year.

“This is what we call a real metamorphosis market,” said ReMax agent Mike Donia.

“In the old days you list it and your caterpillar takes wings and turns into a butterfly. But there a lot more caterpillars out there today, and if you don’t eventually adjust your prices you’re going to get squashed.”

Donia says some vendors are pricing their homes with the mindset that the market was still going up with double digit appreciation as it did earlier in the year.

In the second half of the year prices are expected to decelerate. And even the normally impervious upper end market has taken a beating. Agents are still talking about the Forest Hill home that sold for $3.5 million this month. In 2007, the same home had sold for $3.68 million.“Sellers are finding that they have to have a lot more flexibility and they have to be much more realistic today,” says veteran agent Sharon Black. “Don’t expect every home to sell in five days.”

Black is currently listing a Yorkville loft with an asking price of $499,000.

Two years ago the vendor purchased the 900-square-foot property for $489,000. After commissions and land transfer taxes, the vendor will end up taking a loss, said Black.

“The market has turned. In this case the seller is getting 2008 prices for their property,” said Black. Vendors who waited too long to list their property because it would show better in the summer – “Wait till you see my tulips bloom in July” – would have been disappointed said the agent. “In this market, he who hesitates is lost.”

Belitsky said the one piece of advice he would offer vendors is “not to chase the market down.”

The sale could die a slow death if vendors incrementally drop the listing price as the market cools. Best to make one dramatic cut and get it over, said Belitsky.

“If you follow the market to the new lower price you’ll never sell – you have to get ahead of the market,” said Belitsky.

As for buyers, Belitsky says the market mantra can be summed up pretty much in one sentence: “It never fails to happen. They’ll walk in, then say they really like the house, but then say…let’s see what happens next month.”

Montagliani, meanwhile, says she has learned a few hard lessons about the real estate market.

“For one thing, timing is everything,” she says. “Even a few weeks can make a difference in missing a window of opportunity. And that certainly may have happened to us."


Finally we are seeing articles reflecting what I expected; we would retest the 2008 lows. I realize none of the article is new news and just regurgitation of facts we know, but I think it is a factual harbinger of what is to come.
 
There is also an article talking about housing in the US and the thrust of it is that housing will no longer be viewed as an investment but as a place to live for a whole new generation. I am not saying that I totally agree with that but certainly the "commodity aspect" of investment real estate will descend until prices are more sustainable or make financial sense again. Along with the removal of housing from the commodity arena or at least of it as a decreased player in that arena, the increases in price we have seen the past few years due to it being a commodity which I believe are unsustainable should be wrung out and housing will resume its traditional role: a place to live rather than an investment on which to speculate.
 

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