News   May 10, 2024
 1.1K     0 
News   May 10, 2024
 1.6K     0 
News   May 10, 2024
 1.1K     0 

Baby, we got a bubble!?

Vancouver slump hits national home sales
Published on Monday October 15, 2012
Share on twitterShare on facebook
AARON HARRIS/TORONTO STAR The number of homes sold in Canada has dropped more than 15 per cent in the last year.

By Susan Pigg Business Reporter
Veteran Mississauga realtor Mike Donia has been through two housing downturns and he’s been seeing the same telltale signs across the GTA since May.
Inquiries to his office from buyers are down at least 65 per cent, bidding wars are going bust and he’s seeing a growing number of power of sale properties — including a $13.9 million Bridle Path mansion — popping up on the MLS.
At the same time, he’s got over a dozen clients trying to get out of pre-construction condo deals penned more than a year ago because they now find themselves overextended and fearful the condo boom is about to go bust.
“My geiger counter has been going off for four or five months now,” says the 25-year veteran of the GTA real estate business. “I can’t tell you when the epicentre of the earthquake is going to hit, but the picture on my wall is shaking.”
Despite a slight recovery over August, home sales fell 15.1 per cent across the country in September compared to a year earlier, according to figures from the Canadian Real Estate Association released Monday.
Sales were down considerably more — 23.2 and 33.2 per cent respectively — in Toronto and Vancouver. While prices were up 8.2 per cent in Toronto year-over-year, compared to a 3.8 per cent decline in Vancouver, condo prices are already starting to soften here and many housing watchers expect house prices could follow in the new year.
“We’re seeing more standoffs between buyers and sellers and properties are taking a little longer to sell,” says Coldwell Banker realtor Farrell Macdonald.
Just recently, Donia was incredulous as a homeowner sent back four offers, expecting to see the bidding war for his $800,000 Mississauga home escalate. All four prospective buyers walked away.
“Buyers today are like sharks — they may not see the food but they smell the blood in the water. They are looking for those fish that are floundering,” says Donia.
CREA has cited tough new mortgage rules imposed by Ottawa for much of the slowdown in sales, saying that the fourth round tighter regulations which took effect July 9, reducing maximum amortizations from 30 to 25 years, knocked a lot of first-time buyers out of the market.
But Donia, as well as housing analyst Ben Rabidoux, say the slowdown started back in the spring, especially in the overheated Vancouver market where investor speculation and low interest rates had helped push house prices out of reach.
Even Montreal is now being hit by flagging sales and a 12-month inventory of properties for sale, twice the six months’ worth across the GTA, says Rabidoux.
“We’re seeing from Vancouver and Montreal that that price pressure can hit — that supply and demand imbalance can hit — almost overnight. I’m not seeing that as being imminent in Toronto right now,” Rabidoux added.
But prices will inevitably take a hit — especially in the condo sector where tens of thousands more units are now under construction and prices are already starting to soften — if sales continue to slow into the spring market, said Rabidoux.
While the 2.5 per cent increase in sales in September over August was the first month-to-month gain since March, sales were down sharply over a year earlier, largely due to the slowdown in Vancouver.
“National activity is likely to remain down from year-ago levels over the fourth quarter of 2012,” said Gregory Klump, CREA’s chief economist.
“While some first time home buyers may no longer qualify for mortgage financing under the new rules, it is likely that many others are stepping back and reassessing how much house they can realistically afford, which is one of the things new mortgage rules were designed to do.”
TD Bank economist Francis Fong predicted a “gradual unwinding of the imbalance in both sales and prices over the next few years,” rather than a “preciptious decline in housing activity in the near term.”
 
Vancouver slump hits national home sales
Published on Monday October 15, 2012
Share on twitterShare on facebook
AARON HARRIS/TORONTO STAR The number of homes sold in Canada has dropped more than 15 per cent in the last year.

By Susan Pigg Business Reporter
Veteran Mississauga realtor Mike Donia has been through two housing downturns and he’s been seeing the same telltale signs across the GTA since May.
Inquiries to his office from buyers are down at least 65 per cent, bidding wars are going bust and he’s seeing a growing number of power of sale properties — including a $13.9 million Bridle Path mansion — popping up on the MLS.
At the same time, he’s got over a dozen clients trying to get out of pre-construction condo deals penned more than a year ago because they now find themselves overextended and fearful the condo boom is about to go bust.
“My geiger counter has been going off for four or five months now,” says the 25-year veteran of the GTA real estate business. “I can’t tell you when the epicentre of the earthquake is going to hit, but the picture on my wall is shaking.”
Despite a slight recovery over August, home sales fell 15.1 per cent across the country in September compared to a year earlier, according to figures from the Canadian Real Estate Association released Monday.
Sales were down considerably more — 23.2 and 33.2 per cent respectively — in Toronto and Vancouver. While prices were up 8.2 per cent in Toronto year-over-year, compared to a 3.8 per cent decline in Vancouver, condo prices are already starting to soften here and many housing watchers expect house prices could follow in the new year.
“We’re seeing more standoffs between buyers and sellers and properties are taking a little longer to sell,” says Coldwell Banker realtor Farrell Macdonald.
Just recently, Donia was incredulous as a homeowner sent back four offers, expecting to see the bidding war for his $800,000 Mississauga home escalate. All four prospective buyers walked away.
“Buyers today are like sharks — they may not see the food but they smell the blood in the water. They are looking for those fish that are floundering,” says Donia.
CREA has cited tough new mortgage rules imposed by Ottawa for much of the slowdown in sales, saying that the fourth round tighter regulations which took effect July 9, reducing maximum amortizations from 30 to 25 years, knocked a lot of first-time buyers out of the market.
But Donia, as well as housing analyst Ben Rabidoux, say the slowdown started back in the spring, especially in the overheated Vancouver market where investor speculation and low interest rates had helped push house prices out of reach.
Even Montreal is now being hit by flagging sales and a 12-month inventory of properties for sale, twice the six months’ worth across the GTA, says Rabidoux.
“We’re seeing from Vancouver and Montreal that that price pressure can hit — that supply and demand imbalance can hit — almost overnight. I’m not seeing that as being imminent in Toronto right now,” Rabidoux added.
But prices will inevitably take a hit — especially in the condo sector where tens of thousands more units are now under construction and prices are already starting to soften — if sales continue to slow into the spring market, said Rabidoux.
While the 2.5 per cent increase in sales in September over August was the first month-to-month gain since March, sales were down sharply over a year earlier, largely due to the slowdown in Vancouver.
“National activity is likely to remain down from year-ago levels over the fourth quarter of 2012,” said Gregory Klump, CREA’s chief economist.
“While some first time home buyers may no longer qualify for mortgage financing under the new rules, it is likely that many others are stepping back and reassessing how much house they can realistically afford, which is one of the things new mortgage rules were designed to do.”
TD Bank economist Francis Fong predicted a “gradual unwinding of the imbalance in both sales and prices over the next few years,” rather than a “preciptious decline in housing activity in the near term.”

Looks like the Pigg is out of the pen.

My prediction is the Finance Minister lowers the prime lending rate to between 2.50-2.75% by Spring to stoke the slumping market. Gotta kick that can further down the road!
 
Looks like the Pigg is out of the pen.

My prediction is the Finance Minister lowers the prime lending rate to between 2.50-2.75% by Spring to stoke the slumping market. Gotta kick that can further down the road!

Do you mean Carney? I don't think Flaherty can affect the prime rate.

I also doubt that they'll lower the BoC rate lower than 1%. They made the market slump on purpose. They want a gradual correction, not a crash. The average debt levels are too damn high and it's stumping the overall economy. People who are house poor have no money to spend that will stimulate the economy.
 
October 16, 2012 -- Greater Toronto Area REALTORS® reported 2,961 sales through the TorontoMLS system during the first 14 days of October 2012. The number of transactions was down by 10.5 per cent compared to the same period in 2011. New listings were up by 5.5 per cent year-over-year to 6,505.

“Some households have put their home purchase plans on hold in response to the higher cost of home ownership brought about by the recent changes to mortgage lending guidelines. Both first-time buyers and existing home owners have been affected, given that sales were down across house types and geography,†said Toronto Real Estate Board (TREB) President Ann Hannah.

The average selling price for sales reported from October 1 through October 14 was $501,146 – up by almost six per cent in comparison to last year.


“The average selling price grew well above the rate of inflation in the first half of October due to relatively tight market conditions from a historic perspective. However, the market continued to become better supplied, pointing toward a slower pace of price growth as we move into 2013,†said Jason Mercer, TREB’s Senior Manager of Market Analysis.


http://www.torontorealestateboard.c...market_updates/news2012/nr_mid_month_1012.htm


City of Toronto average selling price up 2.6% y/y $537,296

Toronto condo sales down 18% y/y prices down 4% y/y 356,312
 
Increased Choice Results in Flat Condo Prices in Q3

Toronto, October 16, 2012-- Greater Toronto Area REALTORS¨ reported 4,541 condominium apartment sales through the TorontoMLS system in the third quarter of 2012. This result represented a 20.5 per cent decline in transactions compared to the third quarter of 2011. Over the same period, the number of new listings was up by more than 6.5 per cent to 11,456.

ÒThe condominium apartment market was the best supplied market segment in the third quarter of this year. Strong condominium apartment completions in 2011 and the beginning of 2012 resulted in many investor-held units listed for sale. At the same time, sales dropped off relative to last year as some buyers moved to the sidelines as stricter mortgage lending guidelines resulted in increased costs of home ownership,Ó said Toronto Real Estate Board (TREB) President Ann Hannah.

The average selling price for condominium apartments in the third quarter, at $334,204, was flat in comparison to the same period last year.

ÒWith more listings to choose from and fewer sales, condo buyers have not been as aggressive with regard to offers, and sellers have had to price their units competitively. The result was little upward pressure on the average selling price compared to last year. Given the supply of listings currently in the market place, the average rate of price growth for condo apartments should continue to lag price growth for low-rise home types over the next year,Ó said Jason Mercer, TREBÕs
Senior Manager of Market Analysis.

http://www.torontorealestateboard.com/market_news/condo_report/index.htm

http://www.torontorealestateboard.com/market_news/condo_report/2012/condo_report_Q3-2012.pdf
 
Looks like we might start seeing drops in rent soon:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...ales-falter-as-listings-climb/article4617115/

Meanwhile, the number of condos that were rented by way of the MLS system rose three per cent in the third quarter to 5,241. But the number of condos listed for rent in the same period rose 18 per cent to 8,845.

Average rents rose by 3.4 per cent for one-bedroom units, to $1,605, and 2.2 per cent for two-bedroom units, to $2,097. But those price increases were generally not as strong as the ones the market had seen in the past four quarters.

“Prospective renters had more units to choose from, which led to less upward pressure on rents,†said Jason Mercer, senior manager of market analysis at the Toronto Real Estate Board.
 

Don't worry. Everything is fine. Next year will be a "record year" for the Toronto condo market! At least, well, that's what I've heard from the master analysts of real estate.

In the alternative, what we'll see is a "minor correction".

In the alternative, what we'll see is a "extended, but moderate correction".

In the alternative, what we'll see is a "serious but not catastrophic downturn".

<<Extend jawboning to indefinite levels of vagueness here>>
 
Last edited:
Don't worry. Everything is fine. Next year will be a "record year" for the Toronto condo market! At least, well, that's what I've heard from the master analysts of real estate.

If there is enough noise in the US about a market recovery (2012 is turning out to be a pretty good for new-construction) then it is possible the Toronto housing market will stay level (not including inflation).

It might not be a great time to buy but selling with the expectation of buying your place back again for less in 2 years might not work out well either.
 
If there is enough noise in the US about a market recovery (2012 is turning out to be a pretty good for new-construction) then it is possible the Toronto housing market will stay level (not including inflation).

What does the US market have to do with the Toronto housing market?
 
If there is enough noise in the US about a market recovery (2012 is turning out to be a pretty good for new-construction) then it is possible the Toronto housing market will stay level (not including inflation).

It might not be a great time to buy but selling with the expectation of buying your place back again for less in 2 years might not work out well either.


if that's the case, that makes it more attractive for the specuvestors to buy in the US for better returns than Canada, hence they will sell here to recover their capital.
 
What does the US market have to do with the Toronto housing market?

Short-term market direction is influenced how good/confident people feel. Getting a stream of "up" news from the US regarding housing could prop things up here for a little longer. I could see foreign investors going south but locals might try to hold the line on price if selling.

A secondary effect of a recovering US housing market is going to be Canadian bank profits (TD and BMO specifically); possibly hiring.

I wouldn't mind a 50% price cut in Toronto as the wife wants a yard and I have committments here for a few years, also, I sold everything but my primary residence over the last 4 years.
 
Last edited:
Short-term market direction is influenced how good/confident people feel. Getting a stream of "up" news from the US regarding housing could prop things up here for a little longer. I could see foreign investors going south but locals might try to hold the line on price if selling.

A secondary effect of a recovering US housing market is going to be Canadian bank profits (TD and BMO specifically); possibly hiring.

I actually think it will have the opposite affect. Why keep money in real estate if you could be making a better return in the financial market?

The banks employ about 275K Canadians (about 1.6% overall). While significant, an increase of, say, 10% would not have a dramatic affect on overall employment. Also, with an increased market in the U.S., the banks are also more likely to hire more people in the U.S. than in Canada.
 
10 York street is going to sell well. The location is excellent and Tridel has a great reputation. King Blue looks good, too. Eau du Soleil might be the one most affected by recent market trends.

Excuse my ignorance but can the developers not drop the price back to $400 sq/ft for pre-sale. This will almost gurantee them to sell out within a week. I just don't see why they are selling condos at $600 - $700 sq/ft? What is the developers profit margin per sale?
 

Back
Top