Another Grass-is-Greener Everywhere Else tête-à -tête-à -tête-à -tête

[urbandreamer]

Utterly rediculous comment, as usual.

Your spelling is ridiculous!

 

[junctionist]

Your spelling is ridiculous!

That comment was indeed ridiculous. Montreal, for instance, is a city with a large number of rental apartments and known as a design city. How many struggling artists and designers own houses in either city? Anyone can comment on the topic of design and maintenance, so long as they're not hypocrites who advocate for values which they don't actually believe in. A person need not own any property to figure out the economics. For every person who espouses such opinions on UT about the need for good design and proper maintenance, there are tens of thousands of well-maintained and designed buildings and spaces in Toronto.

 

[TonyV]

unfortunately I dont really have time to prepare a thesis or essay on the subject... I think you have nailed half of the issue in the last part of your post. The repetetiveness is a big problem in my eyes. There are 2 or 3 local architects that seem to have garnered special favour and are being awarded a disproportionate number of new projects. Just by definition these are bound to be derivative, but even worse, they sometimes appear to be near identical copies or mix and match elements of previous work. The other part of my complaint is that the approach here is so utterly conservative. Of all the new office buildings completed in the last 5 years I cant really think of one that is any more than a simple box shape, clad entirely in glass. The only one that could even possibly challenge that conclusion is RBC/Dexia though it's only variation is a simple tack on piece on the top. The "Southcore" area is suffering badly from a monoculture of similar shades of glass - there is virtually no stone or brick being used in any of these new buildings which would add texture and warmth in contrast to the cold sterile glass. Think of the classic view of our financial district - its a wonderful variety of materials and colours, and that is what makes it so interesting (even though it too is disproportionately boxy). I just dont see this type of monoculture of buildings in other places that I travel to. But hey, its only my opinion and arguing over it I know is only academic...

Thanks for your response, Redroom Studios. I think that I share some of your concerns (although not all). In general, however, I am not enthused in the least with the designs in this proposal, and I wish that the "SOG" (South of Gardiner) area was destined to be a more high-end residential area, because if that were the case we'd stand a better chance of having some decent architecture there.

I like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8_Spruce_Street - and that is to say that I'd love to see some big hair architecture in this sector in the SOG.

If the market takes the correction that I think it is going to take, the shovels won't be in the ground for years, and that allows the developers a significant re-thinking of this proposal. I can live with the land staying vacant for a good long time, instead of seeing this trite crap go up. (Apologies to height queens).

Bring some big hair to SOG, and it will be a game changer.

 

[Xray_Crystal_Junkie]

Of course you like 8 Spruce, everyone does! I don't expect to see anything like that being build in Toronto in my life time however.

 

[nstuch]

i think poor upkeep of both private and public property is one of the things that defines Toronto. i've never been to another city where there is such widespread general neglect in areas both rich and poor of private property and of public space especially. While there's certainly less of it there's still shabby rundown properties all over the annex and some in summerhill, and city infrastructure is just as poor in rosedale as it is in the inner suburbs. why i have no idea, maybe it's the broken window theory at work. As far as tourists visiting, i wonder what they think when they stand in nathan phillips square and see it littered with ramshackle picnic tables or in front of old city hall and see the patches of mud and crumbling asphalt driveway.. given that the general public seems oblivious to the issue i wonder if there'll ever be a change in attitude in our lifetimes?

 

[old boy]

Some of the negativity expressed towards this city's public and private spaces may have something to do with the sense that Toronto has been a construction zone for a long while, and winter certainly doesn't enhance the look of things. It's a busy, messy place, and maybe that's a part of it's appeal. Anyone born in this city 50 or 60 years, as I was, knows how changed Toronto is from then, and how multi-faceted and dynamic it has become. To my mind , for all the negative things that spring so readily to mind, the city is on track to being a premier city in North America, if it isn't already, ( though transportation infrastructure is problematic ). It seems to have all the ingredients, but maybe lacking the master chef to whip it up. And another point, the general public includes people who post on sites such as these. And, I'm going to assume that most of us genuinely want Toronto to be as beautiful and enjoyable as it can be. So, the next time you see some small evidence of " general neglect ", that can be cleaned up, just do it. Others may take note and do the same. Who knows maybe it'll catch on. In some ways it's individuals who make all the changes in what really matters.

 

[TonyV]

Some of the negativity expressed towards this city's public and private spaces may have something to do with the sense that Toronto has been a construction zone for a long while, and winter certainly doesn't enhance the look of things. It's a busy, messy place, and maybe that's a part of it's appeal. Anyone born in this city 50 or 60 years, as I was, knows how changed Toronto is from then, and how multi-faceted and dynamic it has become. To my mind , for all the negative things that spring so readily to mind, the city is on track to being a premier city in North America, if it isn't already, ( though transportation infrastructure is problematic ). It seems to have all the ingredients, but maybe lacking the master chef to whip it up. And another point, the general public includes people who post on sites such as these. And, I'm going to assume that most of us genuinely want Toronto to be as beautiful and enjoyable as it can be. So, the next time you see some small evidence of " general neglect ", that can be cleaned up, just do it. Others may take note and do the same. Who knows maybe it'll catch on. In some ways it's individuals who make all the changes in what really matters.

Nicely put.

 

[nstuch]

Some of the negativity expressed towards this city's public and private spaces may have something to do with the sense that Toronto has been a construction zone for a long while, and winter certainly doesn't enhance the look of things. It's a busy, messy place, and maybe that's a part of it's appeal. Anyone born in this city 50 or 60 years, as I was, knows how changed Toronto is from then, and how multi-faceted and dynamic it has become. To my mind , for all the negative things that spring so readily to mind, the city is on track to being a premier city in North America, if it isn't already, ( though transportation infrastructure is problematic ). It seems to have all the ingredients, but maybe lacking the master chef to whip it up. And another point, the general public includes people who post on sites such as these. And, I'm going to assume that most of us genuinely want Toronto to be as beautiful and enjoyable as it can be. So, the next time you see some small evidence of " general neglect ", that can be cleaned up, just do it. Others may take note and do the same. Who knows maybe it'll catch on. In some ways it's individuals who make all the changes in what really matters.

i disagree, go to practically any residential area, untouched by construction and the shabbiness is all over the place.. it's almost a guarantee that every post holding a sign is leaning at some angle with the sign more than likely to be faded, bent, rusted or graffitti'ed. also almost every building i walk by has weeds growing from where the building meets the street.. in other cities this just doesn't exist, people take pride in their properties (US city ghettoes excepted). i know these are small examples but there are thousands of other similar ones pointing to the fact that residents and city employees don't seem to care

 

[Tewder]

Some of the negativity expressed towards this city's public and private spaces may have something to do with the sense that Toronto has been a construction zone for a long while, and winter certainly doesn't enhance the look of things. It's a busy, messy place, and maybe that's a part of it's appeal. Anyone born in this city 50 or 60 years, as I was, knows how changed Toronto is from then, and how multi-faceted and dynamic it has become. To my mind , for all the negative things that spring so readily to mind, the city is on track to being a premier city in North America, if it isn't already, ( though transportation infrastructure is problematic ). It seems to have all the ingredients, but maybe lacking the master chef to whip it up. And another point, the general public includes people who post on sites such as these. And, I'm going to assume that most of us genuinely want Toronto to be as beautiful and enjoyable as it can be. So, the next time you see some small evidence of " general neglect ", that can be cleaned up, just do it. Others may take note and do the same. Who knows maybe it'll catch on. In some ways it's individuals who make all the changes in what really matters.

I appreciate the plucky spirit but this 'let's just pick up the trash and Toronto will be world class' attitude is a little silly. Toronto's squalor reflects its profound lack of self esteem. Very few expect better, and fewer still demand it. The end result is the mess we see, everywhere.

There are some signs of change, to be sure, but in the end we still end up accepting and justifying overhead wires, cracked sidewalks, sad green spaces, broken fountains, and run down streetscapes. Add into this the woefully and irresponsible underfunding of transit and the arts and other basics that great cities need to be great and you are left with a bit of a boom-burg state of affairs. Lets just hope the bottom doesn't fall too far out of the economy or the condo boom because it'll really get uninspiring around here.

 

[taal]

Regarding street signs ... they're actually a lot better now for the most part.

I'm not saying the new signs are better, that's a completely different story, I mean the signs aren't bent / sprayed on / ..., at least not yet, sure you can argue it will happen.

Walk around a lot of neighborhoods downtown and you'll see its a lot better now.


I think Toronto's problem are predominantly:
light standards
sidewalks
condition of the roads ... even if you don't drive, many just look like crap
Garbage ... we're worse then most American cities, not way worse, but worse ...

Personally I love overhead wires, but I don't want to get started no that now.

Imagine all our sidewalks were clean / well maintained and we had nice consistent light standards.

Now lighting is actually pretty decent in some neighborhoods downtown, check out the St. Lawrence market area ... overall the lights there are nice.


But lets face it, Toronto, from a public realm perspective, is not a beautiful city.

 

[CITY_LOVER]

^^^^ I've noticed that lights on non-arterial roads in the City of Toronto are dimmer than other centres (like Calgary). And I'm not a fan of the white lights (I prefer the traditional yellow ones); the white ones feel even dimmer than the yellow ones (so a double negative for someone from Calgary, like me) and I'm not sure if this makes sense or not but when I drive I see a stronger glare from the white lights than the yellow ones (so overall, the yellow ones are more pleasant and I think are safer when driving, especially in regards to cyclists and pedestrians).

 

[Nick.]

hahaha, have you people ever been to new york?

 

[caltrane74]

I don't think Toronto is ever gonna be a beautiful city like Paris, or even Vancouver or Quebec. We are a city built for efficiency's sake. Exciting yes, pretty not really, and avante garde, hell no!

Like they use to say back in the day:

"New York run by the Swiss"

 

[taal]

Completely agree ... having said that we can still improve ... look at Bloor ... look at the new waterfront development ... plans for Yonge.

Have these changes paste and future put us in the same league as New York and the like ... nope ...

I wish people would just accept that though. I understand that want to better the city, and we've seen that a little.

 

[caltrane74]

Yes Bloor street looks awesome, but look what it took to build that. The richest landlords in the city had to chip in their own dime. And they had to do it kicking and screaming with an interest free loan from the taxpayers. Likely won't see anything like that happen again anywhere in the city except perhaps on the downtown stretch of Yonge.