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cacruden
Guest
Why all this uproar about an Alliance member that holds controversial beliefs, and yet a Liberal member is allowed to say "Kilgour sees same-sex marriage leading to incest, polygamy." and stay in Cabinet?
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GeekyBoyTO
Guest
cacruden:
" Why should Harper not solicit votes from the Christian right? They have the same rights as any of us..... should we also take away their right to vote? Sharing the same belief that gay marriage should not be legalized is not the
same as sharing the same sentiments. "
Now I didn't say they don't have the same rights - what I've said is that Harper is hypocritical in playing both sides - saying that, by firing the MP, discrimination is unacceptable and at the same time, by soliciting the Christian right, could very well endorses their message.
If he had the balls, he chosen an either or scenario, and not trying to have his cake and eat it too.
GB
" Why should Harper not solicit votes from the Christian right? They have the same rights as any of us..... should we also take away their right to vote? Sharing the same belief that gay marriage should not be legalized is not the
same as sharing the same sentiments. "
Now I didn't say they don't have the same rights - what I've said is that Harper is hypocritical in playing both sides - saying that, by firing the MP, discrimination is unacceptable and at the same time, by soliciting the Christian right, could very well endorses their message.
If he had the balls, he chosen an either or scenario, and not trying to have his cake and eat it too.
GB
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cacruden
Guest
>Now I didn't say they don't have the same rights - what I've
>said is that Harper is hypocritical in playing both sides -
>saying that, by firing the MP, discrimination is unacceptable
>and at the same time, by soliciting the Christian right, could
>very well endorses their message.
He did not get fired for "discrimination" when it came to gays, he got fire for being stupid (extremely), offensive, etc. This issue split the Liberal party as well, should all those that do not agree with legalizing gay marriage be "fired" as well for "discriminatory behaviour". Then we will only have like-minded individuals and no debate.
The belief that marriage is strictly between a man and a women is a cultural one that has been around a long time. The problem comes from the fact that the government got into the business of dealing with marriage when they started to "register" marriages, and use that as the basis of tax and benefits laws. The government has two options, one legalize gay marriages, two rewrite thousands of laws to remove the marriage "registry" as the basis of benefits and tax.... which one is easier?
Marriage (from it's origins) has religious overtones to it. Stricktly speaking, if you believe in the seperation of church and state, then the government should not be involved in the definition of what a family is.
>If he had the balls, he chosen an either or scenario,
>and not trying to have his cake and eat it too.
Again, I don't see where he is trying to have it both ways. He has stated that he believes that gay marriage should not be legalized. He has stated that those comments were blatently offensive, and does not represent the party. He (the fired) was basically trying to bring the government back into the bedrooms of Canada.... the CA platform does not say that they should bring the government back into the bedrooms of Canada.
>said is that Harper is hypocritical in playing both sides -
>saying that, by firing the MP, discrimination is unacceptable
>and at the same time, by soliciting the Christian right, could
>very well endorses their message.
He did not get fired for "discrimination" when it came to gays, he got fire for being stupid (extremely), offensive, etc. This issue split the Liberal party as well, should all those that do not agree with legalizing gay marriage be "fired" as well for "discriminatory behaviour". Then we will only have like-minded individuals and no debate.
The belief that marriage is strictly between a man and a women is a cultural one that has been around a long time. The problem comes from the fact that the government got into the business of dealing with marriage when they started to "register" marriages, and use that as the basis of tax and benefits laws. The government has two options, one legalize gay marriages, two rewrite thousands of laws to remove the marriage "registry" as the basis of benefits and tax.... which one is easier?
Marriage (from it's origins) has religious overtones to it. Stricktly speaking, if you believe in the seperation of church and state, then the government should not be involved in the definition of what a family is.
>If he had the balls, he chosen an either or scenario,
>and not trying to have his cake and eat it too.
Again, I don't see where he is trying to have it both ways. He has stated that he believes that gay marriage should not be legalized. He has stated that those comments were blatently offensive, and does not represent the party. He (the fired) was basically trying to bring the government back into the bedrooms of Canada.... the CA platform does not say that they should bring the government back into the bedrooms of Canada.
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GeekyBoyTO
Guest
Alliance MP wants homosexuality "outlawed"
This is one funny piece of news. From cbc.ca
Alliance MP wants homosexuality outlawed
Last Updated Thu, 27 Nov 2003 8:07:35
VANCOUVER - Homosexuality is part of a "well orchestrated" conspiracy that should be outlawed, a Canadian Alliance MP says.
Larry Spencer, the MP for Regina-Lumsden-Lake Centre, told the Vancouver Sun that this conspiracy began in the 1960s and included the seduction and recruitment of young boys in playgrounds and locker rooms.
"I do believe it was a mistake to have legalized it," Spencer, 61, told the Sun.
Spencer, the Alliance's family issues critic, said there has been a deliberate infiltration of homosexuality in North America's courts, schools, religious communities and the entertainment industry.
He said this conspiracy has led to successes in the gay-rights movement.
"It's so sad that we have to take an issue like this and be asked to put the Good Housekeeping seal of approval on it without being allowed to tell the truth and talk about facts," said Spencer, a U.S.-born former Baptist pastor.
He said homosexuals, due to AIDS and other health problems, have a far lower life expectancy than straight men.
"Let's just say if . . . anybody that used Colgate toothpaste, their life expectancy was lowered by 10, 15 years. What do you think would happen to Colgate toothpaste? It would be outlawed. Well, we know that's what happens to men living a gay lifestyle."
He also said homosexuals can transform themselves into heterosexuals.
I hate to bring it up, but in the states, the African-American population also has a lower life expectancy - should they be banned?
GB
This is one funny piece of news. From cbc.ca
Alliance MP wants homosexuality outlawed
Last Updated Thu, 27 Nov 2003 8:07:35
VANCOUVER - Homosexuality is part of a "well orchestrated" conspiracy that should be outlawed, a Canadian Alliance MP says.
Larry Spencer, the MP for Regina-Lumsden-Lake Centre, told the Vancouver Sun that this conspiracy began in the 1960s and included the seduction and recruitment of young boys in playgrounds and locker rooms.
"I do believe it was a mistake to have legalized it," Spencer, 61, told the Sun.
Spencer, the Alliance's family issues critic, said there has been a deliberate infiltration of homosexuality in North America's courts, schools, religious communities and the entertainment industry.
He said this conspiracy has led to successes in the gay-rights movement.
"It's so sad that we have to take an issue like this and be asked to put the Good Housekeeping seal of approval on it without being allowed to tell the truth and talk about facts," said Spencer, a U.S.-born former Baptist pastor.
He said homosexuals, due to AIDS and other health problems, have a far lower life expectancy than straight men.
"Let's just say if . . . anybody that used Colgate toothpaste, their life expectancy was lowered by 10, 15 years. What do you think would happen to Colgate toothpaste? It would be outlawed. Well, we know that's what happens to men living a gay lifestyle."
He also said homosexuals can transform themselves into heterosexuals.
I hate to bring it up, but in the states, the African-American population also has a lower life expectancy - should they be banned?
GB
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cdl42
Guest
That was quick...
--------------------------------
Toronto Star Nov. 27, 2003. 11:21 AM
Comments on gays cost Alliance MP his job
Former family issues critic called for homosexuality to be banned
OTTAWA (CP) — Canadian Alliance MP Larry Spencer was fired today as the party’s family issues critic and temporarily resigned from caucus after making controversial remarks about homosexuals.
Alliance Leader Stephen Harper said Spencer’s comments on homosexuality were unacceptable and do not reflect the party’s stance on gays.
Spencer had told the Vancouver Sun that homosexuality should be outlawed and cited a “well-orchestrated†conspiracy that began in the 1960s and led to recent successes in the gay-rights movement.
The Saskatchewan MP said the conspiracy included the seduction and recruitment of young boys in playgrounds and locker rooms and the deliberate infiltration of North American’s judiciary, schools, religious community and entertainment industry.
The movement’s progress in gaining public acceptance for homosexuality would have been slowed if former prime minister Pierre Trudeau had not legalized homosexuality in 1969, said Spencer, a U.S.-born former Baptist pastor.
He also said he thinks “it’s so sad that we have to take an issue like this and be asked to put the Good Housekeeping seal of approval on it without being allowed to tell the truth and talk about facts.â€
One of those facts is that homosexuals, due to AIDS and other health problems, have a far lower life expectancy than straight men, Spencer said.
“Let’s just say if ... anybody that used Colgate toothpaste, their life expectancy was lowered by 10, 15 years. What do you think would happen to Colgate toothpaste? It would be outlawed. Well, we know that’s what happens to men living a gay lifestyle.â€
Spencer told the Sun there will soon be strong pushes to legalize polygamy and pedophilia.
He also said people who have been practising homosexuals for most of their adult lives, like New Democratic MP Svend Robinson, could transform themselves into heterosexuals.
He pointed out that someone could hate long-distance running or weightlifting but then train themselves in that area and learn to love it.
“So the human body can be sensitized or desensitized. The mind or the conscience . . . can be sharpened against right or wrong. It can be desensitized to think that whatever is wrong that’s around us is nothing but natural and we begin to accept that.â€
Spencer represents the riding of Regina-Lumsden-Lake Centre.
Legal Notice:- Copyright 1996-2003. Toronto Star Newspapers Limited. All rights reserved.
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Toronto Star Nov. 27, 2003. 11:21 AM
Comments on gays cost Alliance MP his job
Former family issues critic called for homosexuality to be banned
OTTAWA (CP) — Canadian Alliance MP Larry Spencer was fired today as the party’s family issues critic and temporarily resigned from caucus after making controversial remarks about homosexuals.
Alliance Leader Stephen Harper said Spencer’s comments on homosexuality were unacceptable and do not reflect the party’s stance on gays.
Spencer had told the Vancouver Sun that homosexuality should be outlawed and cited a “well-orchestrated†conspiracy that began in the 1960s and led to recent successes in the gay-rights movement.
The Saskatchewan MP said the conspiracy included the seduction and recruitment of young boys in playgrounds and locker rooms and the deliberate infiltration of North American’s judiciary, schools, religious community and entertainment industry.
The movement’s progress in gaining public acceptance for homosexuality would have been slowed if former prime minister Pierre Trudeau had not legalized homosexuality in 1969, said Spencer, a U.S.-born former Baptist pastor.
He also said he thinks “it’s so sad that we have to take an issue like this and be asked to put the Good Housekeeping seal of approval on it without being allowed to tell the truth and talk about facts.â€
One of those facts is that homosexuals, due to AIDS and other health problems, have a far lower life expectancy than straight men, Spencer said.
“Let’s just say if ... anybody that used Colgate toothpaste, their life expectancy was lowered by 10, 15 years. What do you think would happen to Colgate toothpaste? It would be outlawed. Well, we know that’s what happens to men living a gay lifestyle.â€
Spencer told the Sun there will soon be strong pushes to legalize polygamy and pedophilia.
He also said people who have been practising homosexuals for most of their adult lives, like New Democratic MP Svend Robinson, could transform themselves into heterosexuals.
He pointed out that someone could hate long-distance running or weightlifting but then train themselves in that area and learn to love it.
“So the human body can be sensitized or desensitized. The mind or the conscience . . . can be sharpened against right or wrong. It can be desensitized to think that whatever is wrong that’s around us is nothing but natural and we begin to accept that.â€
Spencer represents the riding of Regina-Lumsden-Lake Centre.
Legal Notice:- Copyright 1996-2003. Toronto Star Newspapers Limited. All rights reserved.
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heckles2
Guest
LOL - sounds like the Alliance wants to hide what the party feels like by kicking him out. Circa Trent Lott being kicked out of the Republican leadership in the Senate in the US when he made pro-racist comments in support of segregation back a year ago.
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garden of evil
Guest
Why do anti-gay people always equate being gay with getting AIDS? And it is always men, never women.
GB said
just to add to that.... left handed people live shorter lives so lets go back to making them right handed.
Lets talk about the "FACTS" on this.... the real facts, not just his perception of the facts.
If his opinions do not reflect the party's opinions, why are so many Alliance members opposed to gay marriage? Why will they stop at nothing to kill basic human equality in Canada?
Ditto for the flip-side. Our minds can be lead to believe that one group is better than another because they are different in some way. Maybe he is the one who needs to "transform himself".
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afransen TO
Guest
We should ban things that reduce life expectancy? Hmmm, what about cigarettes?
What about alcohol?
What about automobiles?
What about handguns?
This is why I have no respect whatsoever for the Alliance party.
What about alcohol?
What about automobiles?
What about handguns?
This is why I have no respect whatsoever for the Alliance party.
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asher11
Guest
Such medieval thinking. :brickwall
I wonder how those types even get elected in the first place. And to think they want to run a country. On second thought, I don't think they do want to ever get voted into power, unless they plan to do it by getting all their votes outside the big cities and then sticking it to us.
oke:
I wonder how those types even get elected in the first place. And to think they want to run a country. On second thought, I don't think they do want to ever get voted into power, unless they plan to do it by getting all their votes outside the big cities and then sticking it to us.
oke:
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SD2
Guest
And the west wonders why no one votes for the Alliance!
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garden of evil
Guest
Here's hoping that this latest "scandal" will end the Tory/Alliance merger.
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sdoody
Guest
I think it's hilarious that he later released a statement basically disavowing all the comments he made in the article...how could anybody actually believe this guy about anything? I actually think he's even more of a sleaze (if that's possible) for trying to hide his true feelings when it's obvious what he really believes...
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Floodland
Guest
I just heard a Liberal MP, Kilgore, say on radio that gay marriage will lead to legalization of incest and polygamy.
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cacruden
Guest
Funny, I don't see much of a scandal here. An alliance member made an inappropriate prejudicial comment towards those that are gay, and was fired from his post very fast. That someone holds views like that is not new, there have been many members of parliment that have made prejudicial comments in the past... I am impressed at how quickly Harper dealt with the issue.
And yes, I am a member of the Canadian Alliance. I have been a member of the party since Peter MacKay became leader of the conservatives. I know that most of the people (left) want to paint everyone in the right with the same brush, but even though I am a member of the Canadian Alliance.... I differ in my position to legalizing gay marriage (or ending federal civil registry).... either way right equal rights must prevail.
As far as the conservatives and the alliance, they have to combine or there will never be an alternative to vote for....
And yes, I am a member of the Canadian Alliance. I have been a member of the party since Peter MacKay became leader of the conservatives. I know that most of the people (left) want to paint everyone in the right with the same brush, but even though I am a member of the Canadian Alliance.... I differ in my position to legalizing gay marriage (or ending federal civil registry).... either way right equal rights must prevail.
As far as the conservatives and the alliance, they have to combine or there will never be an alternative to vote for....
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Ed007Toronto
Guest
As a red Tory this just confirms my fears that the merger (actually takeover IMHO) is going to mean the Liberals will rule for a very long time. The Alliance has more yahoo's like this so I won't be voting for the merged "Conservative" party