Afganistan: replacing one tyrannical regime with another.

[dan e 1980]

our tax dollars at work:



Afghans may avoid trying Christian convert
Man could be unfit to stand trial, official says
Mar. 22, 2006. 12:06 PM
ASSOCIATED PRESS
AND CANADIAN PRESS

KABUL — An Afghan man facing a possible death penalty for converting from Islam to Christianity may be mentally unfit to stand trial, a state prosecutor said today.

Abdul Rahman, 41, has been charged with rejecting Islam, a crime under this country’s Islamic laws. His trial started last week and he confessed to becoming a Christian 16 years ago. If convicted, he could be executed.

Countries that have troops in Afghanistan have voiced concern about Rahman’s fate.

But prosecutor Sarinwal Zamari said questions have been raised about Rahman’s mental fitness.

“We think he could be mad. He is not a normal person. He doesn’t talk like a normal person,†he told The Associated Press.

Moayuddin Baluch, a religious adviser to President Hamid Karzai, said Rahman would undergo a psychological examination.

“Doctors must examine him,†he said. “If he is mentally unfit, definitely Islam has no claim to punish him. He must be forgiven. The case must be dropped.â€

A western diplomat in Kabul and a human rights advocate — both of whom spoke on condition of anonymity — said the government was desperately searching for a way to drop the case because of the reaction it has caused.

Franklin Pyles, president of the Christian and Missionary Alliance in Canada, said his organization is appalled Rahman’s life is at risk for converting to Christianity.

“If we are not going to fight for all freedoms, then what are we doing (in Afghanistan)?â€

The United Church of Canada suggested in a letter to Foreign Affairs Minister Peter MacKay that the government use its position in Afghanistan — 2,200 troops are in the country’s south as part of a Canadian-led multinational brigade — to promote human rights.

These rights include “the rights of Afghans to choose and change religion without fear of losing their lives,†the letter says.

But both MacKay and Prime Minister Stephen Harper refused to comment on Rahman’s trial.

Government officials said the case if “of concern,†but that additional facts were needed before a Canadian course of action could be decided.

The U.S. Bush administration issued a subdued appeal to Kabul on Tuesday to let Rahman practise his faith in safety.

Karl Cardinal Lehmann of Germany said the trial sent an “alarming signal†about freedom of worship in Afghanistan.

The case is believed to be the first of its kind in Afghanistan and highlights a struggle between religious conservatives and reformists over what shape Islam should take there four years after the ouster of the fundamentalist Taliban regime.

Afghanistan’s constitution is based on Shariah law, which is interpreted by many to require that any Muslim who rejects Islam be sentenced to death. The state-sponsored Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission has called for Rahman to be punished, arguing he clearly violated Islamic law.

The case has received widespread attention in Afghanistan where many people are demanding Rahman be severely punished.

“For 30 years, we have fought religious wars in this country and there is no way we are going to allow an Afghan to insult us by becoming Christian,†said Mohammed Jan, 38, who lives opposite Rahman’s father, Abdul Manan, in Kabul. “This has brought so much shame.â€

Rahman is believed to have converted from Islam to Christianity while working as a medical aid worker for an international Christian group helping Afghan refugees in the Pakistani city of Peshawar.

He then moved to Germany for nine years before returning to Kabul in 2002, after the ouster of the hardline Taliban regime.

Police arrested him last month after discovering him in possession of a Bible during questioning over a dispute for custody of his two daughters. Prosecutors have offered to drop the charges if Rahman converts back to Islam, but he has refused.

__________________________________________________

i thought afganistan was liberated from the taliban? why are governments, including ours supporting a regime/legal institution like this?

what is going on over there?

 

[dan e 1980]

Harper pleads for Afghan Christian
Urges Karzai to aid religious freedom
Man may face execution for converting
Mar. 23, 2006. 01:00 AM
SEAN GORDON
OTTAWA BUREAU

OTTAWA—Prime Minister Stephen Harper expended some of Canada's newfound influence in Afghanistan, pressuring President Hamid Karzai to ensure that religious freedom would be "fully upheld" for a man facing the death penalty for converting from Islam to Christianity.

In a telephone conversation with the Afghan leader yesterday, Harper added his voice to the international chorus of condemnation over the treatment of Abdul Rahman, 41, who was recently jailed for having converted to Christianity.

Canada currently has about 2,300 troops leading an international military force in southern Afghanistan, and Harper decided to make the most of his contacts with Karzai, who he met during a surprise visit to the region 10 days ago.

"I called President Karzai today to express my deep concerns regarding the Rahman case and the issue of freedom of religion in Afghanistan," Harper said in a statement issued by his office. "President Karzai listened to my concerns and we had a productive and informative exchange of views."

Human rights groups and religious organizations have lobbied the federal government in recent days, and the Anglican Church of Canada and the Christian and Missionary Alliance have publicly demanded that Canada step in.

Yesterday, Harper acted.

"Upon the conclusion of the call, (Karzai) assured me that respect for human and religious rights will be fully upheld in this case," Harper said.

Though Rahman's trial has just begun, he would face death if convicted of apostasy, a penalty he can only avoid by embracing Islam once again, or by entering an insanity plea.

That helps explain why some senior Afghan officials yesterday were publicly casting doubt on Rahman's state of mind and fitness for trial.

"We think he could be mad. He is not a normal person. He doesn't talk like a normal person," prosecutor Sarinwal Zamari told The Associated Press.

Moayuddin Baluch, a religious adviser to Karzai, said Rahman would undergo a psychological examination.

"If he is mentally unfit, definitely Islam has no claim to punish him," he said. "He must be forgiven. The case must be dropped."

A western diplomat in Kabul and a human rights advocate — both of whom spoke on condition of anonymity — said the government was desperately searching for a way to drop the case.

Rahman told a preliminary hearing last week he became a Christian while working for an aid group helping Afghan refugees in Pakistan 15 years ago.

"I'm not an apostate. I'm obedient to God but I'm a Christian, that's my choice," he told the hearing.

The Rahman case is a ticklish one for Karzai, the moderate U.S.-backed leader who is trying to strike a balance between accommodating an international military presence and his country's fractious political culture. Afghanistan is still plagued by tribal rifts and much of the countryside is controlled not by the government but by warlords and remnants of the Taliban.

International observers also see it as a symbol of the struggle between political moderates and religious conservatives in the country, which is still trying to define itself four years after the removal of the arch-fundamentalist Taliban regime.

One of Karzai's religious advisers told Reuters news agency in Kabul that it is up to the country's judiciary — which operates with a mix of civil and Qur'anic law — to resolve the case.

"We in Afghanistan have the prosecutor who observes the law and the court that executes it. Whatever the court orders will be executed, as the court is independent," said Mahaiuddin Baluch.

U.S. President George W. Bush forcefully condemned the handling of Rahman's case, as did German Chancellor Angela Merkel, and Italy's foreign minister. All three countries also have a military presence in Afghanistan.

Bush told reporters in Wheeling, W. Va.: "It is deeply troubling that a country we helped liberate would hold a person to account because they chose a particular religion over another."

NATO's top diplomat, Jaap de Hoop Scheffer, said he would call Karzai to insist the case be dropped.

It's believed Rahman converted to Christianity about 15 years ago while working for a medical aid group in Pakistan. He later lived in Germany before returning to Afghanistan in 2002.

He was arrested after police discovered him in possession of a Bible while interrogating him about a dispute involving his daughters.

The Washington-based Council on American-Islamic Relations, an Islamic advocacy group, said Rahman's conversion was a personal matter and urged Kabul to release him.

Italian Foreign Minister Gianfranco Fini has said Rahman would probably not be executed.

Fini, whose country was one of four with troops in Afghanistan to speak out about the case, told Italian television Tuesday he had indications the Islamic punishment for apostasy would not be imposed on Abdul Rahman.

"From what I've been told, and I have no reason to doubt it, the death sentence will not be carried out," said Fini.

According to press reports from the region, Rahman's neighbours in Kabul haven't exactly rallied to his cause.

"There is no way we are going to allow an Afghan to insult us by becoming Christian," said Mohammed Jan.

With files from the Star's wire services

__________________________________________________

this is going to be a big issue for harper. i think he's part of the christian missionary alliance religion and if this guy dies
by a government which we are aiding, i don't think that's gonna sit well with many. even if the guy is not tried because he is found "crazy", i don't think that's good enough. we should not be propping up tyrannical regimes. i certainly don't think canadian tax dollars should be used to help a government that will kill a person for what they believe.

 

[cacruden]

this is going to be a big issue for harper. i think he's part of the christian missionary alliance religion and if this guy dies
by a government which we are aiding, i don't think that's gonna sit well with many. even if the guy is not tried because he is found "crazy", i don't think that's good enough. we should not be propping up tyrannical regimes. i certainly don't think canadian tax dollars should be used to help a government that will kill a person for what they believe.

It is a big issue for all western governments.

I don't think that the execution of the Christian convert is quite an example of a tyrannical regime ("an absolute ruler unrestrained by law or constitution") because -- well it is the law of the land (Sharia Law).

One question that I don't have an absolute answer for is -- is this an interpretation of islam (small sect) -- or is this commonly understood. From what I have been told so far it seems to be "not an interpretation" but "the law" as defined in the Koran. If this IS a widely held position, then I will have to change my opinion on immigration (up til now -- I have had a very liberal view on immigration). Simply put, if this is what muslims generally believe (or certain sects) -- then the muslim religion (or those sects) are not compatible with our society, and immigration controls (less points) must ensure that it does not become the dominant position in Canada through immigration.

The Hindu, Jewish, Christian [modern], Buddist, etc. religions are much more tolerant about your rights to chose your religion (even if they think you are going to hell). They generally do not try to send you to judgement before your time

 

[blixa442]

One of Karzai's religious advisers told Reuters news agency in Kabul that it is up to the country's judiciary — which operates with a mix of civil and Qur'anic law — to resolve the case.

We should be doing everying to fight Quranic law, not to defend it. It's an absurd situation.

 

[dan e 1980]

Pressure Grows to Free Afghan Convert

By AMIR SHAH, Associated Press Writer 2 hours, 56 minutes ago

KABUL, Afghanistan - The Afghan government faced heavy international pressure Friday to reconsider the charges against an Afghan man who faces a possible death sentence for converting from Islam to Christianity — and reports emerged that the man might be freed soon.


Pressure against the case has been building, and the Afghan government may be rethinking the charges against Abdul Rahman. A government official and MSNBC said Friday that Rahman may be freed within the next few days.

"He could be released soon," an Afghan government official told The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to comment on the case to the media.

MSNBC, citing an Afghan diplomatic official it did not identify, said Rahman, 41, could be released Monday. The British Broadcasting Corp. said government officials were meeting Saturday to discuss the case.

Senior clerics in the Afghan capital have voiced strong support for prosecuting Rahman and again warned Friday they would incite people to kill him unless he reverted to Islam.

Ansarullah Mawlavi Zada, the chief among three judges trying the case, asserted the autonomy of the court.

"We have constitution and law here. Nobody has the right to put pressure on us," he told the AP.

Australia's Prime Minister John Howard, meanwhile, joined the chorus of Western leaders expressing outrage over the prosecution and said he would protest personally to President Hamid Karzai.

"This is appalling. When I saw the report about this I felt sick literally," Howard told an Australian radio network Friday. "The idea that a person could be punished because of their religious belief and the idea they might be executed is just beyond belief."

Rahman faces the death penalty under
Afghanistan's Islamic laws for converting 16 years ago while working as a medical aid worker for an international Christian group helping Afghan refugees in Pakistan.

Karzai's office has declined to comment on the case, which has put the Afghan leader in an awkward position.

Karzai took power after the ouster of the hard-line Taliban regime in a U.S.-led war in late 2001 and relies on international forces to maintain his still-shaky grip on the country.

But he would be reluctant to offend Islamic sensibilities at home or alienate religious conservatives wielding considerable power.

Diplomats have said the Afghan government is searching for a way to drop the case. On Wednesday, authorities said Rahman is suspected of being mentally ill and would undergo psychological examinations to see whether he is fit to stand trial.

Secretary of State
Condoleezza Rice phoned Karzai on Thursday, seeking a "favorable resolution" of the case. She said Washington looked forward to that "in the very near future."

Senior clerics condemned Rahman as an apostate.

Rahman had "committed the greatest sin" by converting to Christianity and deserved to be killed, cleric Abdul Raoulf said in a sermon Friday at Herati Mosque.

"God's way is the right way, and this man whose name is Abdul Rahman is an apostate," he told about 150 worshippers.

Another cleric, Ayatullah Asife Muhseni, told a gathering of preachers and intellectuals at a Kabul hotel that the Afghan president had no right to overturn the punishment of an apostate.

He also demanded that clerics be able to question Rahman in jail to discover why he had converted to Christianity. He suggested it could have been the result of a conspiracy by Western nations or Jews.

At a fruit market in Kabul, many ordinary Afghans said they supported the death penalty, but some wanted more investigation before meting out the punishment.

"In the past 30 years, so many Afghans have been killed in name of communism, Taliban and politics or for robbery. It's enough Afghans killed," said Ghulam Mohammed, 45, a former army officer. Clerics should talk to him (Rahman) and bring him to the right way."

________________________________________________

yet anouther jewish conspiracy! :rollin

 

[shumoon]

One question that I don't have an absolute answer for is -- is this an interpretation of islam (small sect) -- or is this commonly understood. From what I have been told so far it seems to be "not an interpretation" but "the law" as defined in the Koran.

In applying Sharia law, a jurist starts out with Quran, which is considered the infallible word of God. Therafter, if the Quran doesn't provide a clear answer, the jurists looks to the traditions of the prophet Mohammed. If that doesn't provide a clear answer, then one has to use his own logic and reasoning.

The English translation of the Arabic Quran 2:256 says quite plainly:

There is no compulsion in religion.

This negates any punishment for apostacy since no one can compel anyone else to be Muslim. It has to be the free choice of the individual.

So how does an Afghani legal system come up with their decision to try an apostate when it goes against the plain text of the Quran, the highest source of Sharia law? Remember, Afghanistan has one of the lowest literacy rates in the world. Folks there who can't read their native Pashto or Dari languages cannot be expected to read and understand the Arabic of the Quran. In this situation, the Afghani prosecutor's position is a gross misinterpretation of Sharia. It is not even the minority opinion of Muslim jurists. It's just plain wrong.

 

[Abeja de Almirante]

Yes, the current government in Afghanistan is equally as bad as the Taliban.

 

[unimaginative2]

You miss the point. The current government in much of Afghamistan is remnants of the Taliban, or warlords with very similar ideals.

 

[bizorky]

Sorry to split hairs, but some of these warlords were very opposed to the Taliban. Nevertheless, you are right to suggest they ain't big on democratic principles. Whether that type of culture evolves is something we will have to wait to see.

 

[unimaginative2]

Oh you're completely right, bizorky. The warlords were very opposed to the Taliban. That's why the allied with the Americans. But yes, you're also right when you say that they share the Taliban's distaste for democracy, women's rights, etc.

 

[andreapalladio]

Yes, but so does the Bush junta in Washington.

 

[bizorky]

At least Bushy himself will be off to pasture soon (but not soon enough). His after-effects will linger for a long time, like skunk spray in springtime.

 

[andreapalladio]

Ah, but will he? He didn't feel the need to comply with the Constitution to get into the White House - why would you assume he comply with its provisions regarding his departure?

 

[afransen TO]

Oh, come on...

 

[andreapalladio]

Seriously. Why would someone who has consistently ingnored and violated the constitution throughout his regieme get religion about it when he is supposed to leave?