Accessibility and the TTC

[nfitz]

Now you want TWO elevators per station!? I think Wheeltrans is the best way to serve handicapped riders, basically because of costly cans-of-worms like this. Also, since some paratransit will always be needed anyways.

If paratransit will always be needed, why not simply eliminate all the transit lines, and have everyone use paratransit?

Two elevators seems reasonable to me. And not doing it in a new build is just plain dumb.

 

[doady]

Um... yeah, I'm pretty sure all transit is required by law to be accessible now. And that means two elevators per subway station. I'm not sure the point in arguing this.

 

[BurlOak]

Now you want TWO elevators per station!? I think Wheeltrans is the best way to serve handicapped riders, basically because of costly cans-of-worms like this. Also, since some paratransit will always be needed anyways.

I am not a mechanical engineer, but it seems that inventing an escalator with each step wide enough to accomodate a wheelchair should not be that difficult of a task.

This is all I found with a quick internet search.

http://www.fastcompany.com/1301797/...ficient-escalator-also-transports-wheelchairs

 

[W. K. Lis]

I am not a mechanical engineer, but it seems that inventing an escalator with each step wide enough to accomodate a wheelchair should not be that difficult of a task.

This is all I found with a quick internet search.

http://www.fastcompany.com/1301797/...ficient-escalator-also-transports-wheelchairs

Unlike most elevators that are protected from the weather inside buildings, in stations have to work in unheated areas, work in wet or snow, and run almost 20 hours a day (if not more for moving maintenance equipment).

 

[ShonTron]

Now you want TWO elevators per station!? I think Wheeltrans is the best way to serve handicapped riders, basically because of costly cans-of-worms like this. Also, since some paratransit will always be needed anyways.

I take it you've never been stuck in a wheelchair.

I'm in agreement that some (not all) stations need to have a second elevator.

The one that needs it most is St. George, where an elevator that's out of service (happens quite often) requires someone in a wheelchair to go all the way around the YUS loop (if transferring between subway lines) or if trying to get to street level, either making a complex transfer via the 127 Davenport and 26 Dupont or going all the way back to Spadina or Bloor-Yonge and wheeling back.

There should also be a second elevator at Bloor-Yonge between the platforms, but at least there are two accessible exits (Hayden Street and via the HBC Centre). Union Station should have similar redundancy. Once most stations get elevators installed, it would be easier to make short back-tracking possible to reach a useable elevator. I'd also argue that Eglinton should get a second elevator once the Crosstown opens.

The most fustrating station (assuming the elevators are working) is Sheppard-Yonge, where to transfer from the 84 bus to the Yonge requires a long trip, via two elevators, and going around and using the unused Sheppard platform. If actually trying to get the Sheppard Subway, it requires going to Yonge platform level and going back up another elevator.

I've had to use Wheel-Trans for four months after a serious injury. It's not ideal, and it is very expensive to operate, and there's almost no option for spontaneous travel if the transit is inaccessible - and that's right now most of the central city. The subway station near work has no elevator, the hospital I had to go to - Toronto Western - is served only by streetcars. But if work and Western were both wheelchair accessible, I wouldn't have needed Wheel-Trans at all.

You are right though that even if every station gets an elevator and all the low-floor streetcars come online, some paratransit will still be needed.

 

[dowlingm]

I can understand where elevator redundancy is impractical where you are barely able to shoehorn a single one into an existing building form. I can't if there is room or it's newbuild, especially given how long it often takes TTC to fix stuff or if the elevator is down. After all, while the disabled might be able to use wheeltrans (imperfect as it plainly is) that option is not available to many users such as those with strollers or people with luggage.

 

[EnviroTO]

Now you want TWO elevators per station!? I think Wheeltrans is the best way to serve handicapped riders, basically because of costly cans-of-worms like this. Also, since some paratransit will always be needed anyways.

The operating costs of Wheeltrans are over $100M per year. If you can divert those people to the regular transit system, something that just isn't an option with the current state of stations and the streetcar fleet, I think there would be savings over the long term. The advanced planning and hassle of Wheeltrans wouldn't be something that people would choose as often as they do now when provided the option of a fully accessible TTC network.

 

[joeclark]

Bus platforms are largely accessible

This goes hand in hand for the buses since the rider can't get off a bus and into a subway stations.

Surely you will have noticed that a large number of stations have had their platforms retrofitted with automatic doors and wheelchair gates so that you can ride the bus (all of which are accessible) to the station and leave that station via an accessible route, or reverse that process.

This is actually a pretty reasonable option for many stations along Danforth, for example, though I know of only three that are thus accessible (Greenwood, Donlands, Main Street). And the wheelchair gates are fragile, hard-to-use contrivances.

 

[ShonTron]

Surely you will have noticed that a large number of stations have had their platforms retrofitted with automatic doors and wheelchair gates so that you can ride the bus (all of which are accessible) to the station and leave that station via an accessible route, or reverse that process.

This is actually a pretty reasonable option for many stations along Danforth, for example, though I know of only three that are thus accessible (Greenwood, Donlands, Main Street). And the wheelchair gates are fragile, hard-to-use contrivances.

I can't believe that Ossington Station - with three fully-accessible bus routes and a simple exit to the street - wasn't part of the "Easier Access" program that gave some stations an accessible street-to-bus layout. The route signs above the bus bays explicitly state that there's no safe way for a wheelchair user to exit the station or access the subway. I've made several connections there last year (the 63 from Eglinton West to the 94 Wellesley, the only way to Little Italy from points north and west without Wheel-Trans, as long as you're prepared to wheel down/up Manning/Euclid etc).

From a network perspective, Ossington should have been a top priority for elevator installation.

The Wellesley bus serves three subway stations (four if you count the "walking transfer" at Museum), but not one is accessible (well, Castle Frank is accessible from street to bus, but that's almost useless) - and it's the only east-west accessible surface route south of Dupont. But least both of the infrequent 26's termini have elevators.

 

[smallspy]

I can't believe that Ossington Station - with three fully-accessible bus routes and a simple exit to the street - wasn't part of the "Easier Access" program that gave some stations an accessible street-to-bus layout. The route signs above the bus bays explicitly state that there's no safe way for a wheelchair user to exit the station or access the subway. I've made several connections there last year (the 63 from Eglinton West to the 94 Wellesley, the only way to Little Italy from points north and west without Wheel-Trans, as long as you're prepared to wheel down/up Manning/Euclid etc).

I believe the issue with Ossington stems from the narrowness of the station - both with the bus platforms (particularly at the east end) and the passageway through the station building.

Short of a complete rebuild of the station, I'm not sure what can easily be done to alleviate this.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I believe the issue with Ossington stems from the narrowness of the station - both with the bus platforms (particularly at the east end) and the passageway through the station building.

Short of a complete rebuild of the station, I'm not sure what can easily be done to alleviate this.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

Currently, the 63 Ossington, the 94 Wellesley, and the 161 Rogers Road buses use Ossington Station. If they ever do a rebuild, there is an option of NOT turning the 63 Ossington bus into the station, but keeping them on Ossington Avenue with on-street transfers. The other option is just to enlarge the station's looping facilities, but that would be more expensive to do.

 

[dowlingm]

Currently, the 63 Ossington, the 94 Wellesley, and the 161 Rogers Road buses use Ossington Station. If they ever do a rebuild, there is an option of NOT turning the 63 Ossington bus into the station, but keeping them on Ossington Avenue with on-street transfers. The other option is just to enlarge the station's looping facilities, but that would be more expensive to do.

Given how 161 wanders about maybe it could find a new home at Christie instead of forcing Ossingtoners to have transfers. (oops - just noticed no loop at Christie!)

 

[Johnny Au]

Given how 161 wanders about maybe it could find a new home at Christie instead of forcing Ossingtoners to have transfers. (oops - just noticed no loop at Christie!)

I was just about to recommend that the 161 use the Delaware entrance (and put a fare collector there (or else it would be like Yorkdale station, in which passengers on the 109B Ranee route have to use a token or a Metropass to use the southern end of the station (yes I know that the bus also enters Lawrence West station))).

 

[W. K. Lis]

The wheelchair accessible and elevator signs at any station should not be static. They should turn off whenever the elevators are out of service. It is frustrating to get to the elevator and find out it is not available. The escalator symbols go out when they go in the opposite direction or out of service, same should happen for the elevators and full accessibility.

 

[hawc]

Short of a complete rebuild of the station, I'm not sure what can easily be done to alleviate this.

Then we need to rebuild all the stations.