News   Jul 26, 2024
Maple House Wins Sole Canadian ULI 2024 Americas Awards for Excellence
 377     0 
News   Jul 26, 2024
Three Towers up to 55 Storeys Proposed near Sheppard West Station
 1K     1 
News   Jul 26, 2024
A Peek Inside The Canada Malting Silos & Bathurst Quay Revitalization
 858     1 

A theory about Rob Ford's support base

Status
Not open for further replies.
There's some nice, expansive middle ground between being a mushy liberal who makes apologies for stoning rape victims to death and xenophobic assholes who believe the Koran is a book of death that should burn.

A lot of old-world attitudes are tempered or disappear completely in second- and third-generation immigrants. The best thing we can do collectively is promote a cultural ideal of Canada that is inclusive of everyone and successful because of it.
 
Hipster Duck said:
Okay, so you're fed up with bigotry from Tamils and you're going to show just how much more sophisticated you are by...being bigoted? Come on.

I know that there are elements of South Asian culture that don't jive with our Western views on the rights of gay people, etc. but does that mean our reaction should be to shun or make pariahs of these groups? Probably not, because to do so we would be hypocrites.

The only way out of this mess; the only way to foster a truly multicultural society where we are accepting of difference is for two enemy groups to sit down at the table, engage in a dialogue and realize that while they have the right to hold on to their beliefs, they also have the responsibility of ensuring that their values are not imposed upon others. That goes for homophobic Tamils and that goes for you, too.
Click to expand...

Firstly, there is no bigotry in stating facts. Middle Eastern and Indian cultures tend to discriminate against gays. This is not racist or prejudicial, this is a true statement. Again, this is what previous posters mean when they say that being critical of a religion or culture that discriminates is not a form of bigotry. And it's that attitude that prevents dialogue from ever occurring. This is never going to be a serious debate because someone is going to come along and claim racism. It may seem like I am only critisizing a certain demographic, but I would be just as inclined to say the same arguments towards white Christians in the American south.

And I don't believe your hypothetical dialogue would work so well. When religion comes into the equation, it almost doesn't matter what arguments and facts are used. In their mind, religion trumps logic. It's unfortunate, but those who come from a religious background are almost always dogmatic and are never socially progressive.
 
In whose mind does religion trump logic? I'm a "churchgoer" but I like to think I'm pretty logical, and I don't use my religion to explain or condone all my beliefs and values systems. Neither do a lot of my churchgoing friends. I also like to think we're pretty socially progressive. I agree that some people use their religious beliefs to excuse their bigotry, and some folks are extremely dogmatic, but not all who come from a religious background match your description.
 
RC8 said:
The silent majority of the suburbs, perhaps. The areas of the city with higher densities all voted against him. In other words, those who have to experience living in the actual city of Toronto and not on driveways and walmarts far far away, would have much preferred having a different major.
Click to expand...
Therein lies the problem, you somehow see those who have driveways, rely on their cars and shop at Wal-Mart as not living in the "actual city" of Toronto. Well, here's some news for you, there are at least ten Wal-Mart locations in the 416 (AKA the actual city of Toronto), including at least two Wal-Mart locations within the old, pre-amalgamation boundaries of Toronto.
 
Cooool said:
It's unfortunate, but those who come from a religious background are almost always dogmatic and are never socially progressive.
Click to expand...
Come to my church, St. Peter's Anglican at Carlton and Sherbourne. We're welcoming and non-judging of everyone, we have gays, straights, trans, undecides (sorry if that term is offensive, not intended), plus a growing Sunday School, and about 80-100 people joining us every Sunday. Not all religious folks are right wing nutjobs. That may sounds strange coming from a right-leaning guy such as myself, but I'm open minded and intellectually curious about all ideas and political views.
 
GraphicMatt said:
Maybe it's too early to tell, but does anyone else get the impression that Ford is a little bit surprised and confused at the attention he's getting and the importance people attach to his position?
Click to expand...

With reference to the As It Happens interview fiasco, I've offered that observation in another thread--and that it may even contain the seeds of mayoral implosion even sooner than many have ventured to expect...

That's what comes with being a mayoral man-child.

huey.gif


He should wear a diaper.
 
adma said:
With reference to the As It Happens interview fiasco, I've offered that observation in another thread--and that it may even contain the seeds of mayoral implosion even sooner than many have ventured to expect....
Click to expand...
Hopefully he'll realize his limitations and surround himself with more adept folks.
 
PinkLucy said:
In whose mind does religion trump logic? I'm a "churchgoer" but I like to think I'm pretty logical, and I don't use my religion to explain or condone all my beliefs and values systems. Neither do a lot of my churchgoing friends. I also like to think we're pretty socially progressive. I agree that some people use their religious beliefs to excuse their bigotry, and some folks are extremely dogmatic, but not all who come from a religious background match your description.
Click to expand...
Yes, I'm sure that there are religious individuals who are progressive. But generally speaking, especially in the US, religion is used as a valid argument. Whether it's to promote abstinense instead of safe sex and individual choice. Whether it's to oppose gay marriage which has proven to be a harmless social experiment. Whether it's to oppose abortion on the basis of what the bible says.

That's only in North America, can you imagine how much more oppressive it would be in a third world country like India or Pakistan?
 
Do you people even know any south asians? As a second generation indo-canadian I can't begin to tell you how wrong you are, there is an overwhelming support for the diversity in this city, can you maybe understand that perhaps people voted ford not because they are bigots but because they are sick of the wasteful spending they see from city hall? That maybe they are upset at seeing their taxes go up and services go down? That maybe anyone north of bloor street doesn't matter? Educate yourselves pls and don't speak for a community most of you people have no idea about.
 
Religious-based homophobia is a phenomenon of the Abrahamic religions - Christianity, Judaism, Islam.

The Eastern religions - Hinduism, Bhuddism, Taoism, Sikhism, etc. - have no rules against homosexuality.

So blaming the immigrants' religion for homophobia in Canada is just ridiculous.
 
malvern2 said:
That maybe they are upset at seeing their taxes go up and services go down?
Click to expand...
Given that our taxes are lower than surrounding cities, and our services are better, then no, that doesn't make sense. I haven't seen services go down. 2 of the 3 buses I use regularly have seen extended hours in the last couple of years that I've found very useful ... one used to stop at 7 pm, and the other at 10 pm, and they both now run to 1 AM. The third has had increased frequencies. The subway I use has had extra trains added. The streetcar I use has new bigger streetcars on order. My garbage service has been improved as they replaced those 5 blue boxes I used to carry around with a single one ... making the street much cleaner too, with less clutter, and less garbage flying around. Many of the roads I use have been repaved, the street nearby has been completely rebuilt, my sidewalk is brand new, of the 3 subway stations I use the most, one is undergoing a major rebuild, and another is scheduled to start one next year. The library continues to provide great service, there are plenty of programs at the community centre my daughter and wife use. The city has built a new soccer stadium I frequent. Driving is a little easier in spots with both Simcoe and soon Dufferin joined up.

The suggestion that taxes are high and services are dropping seems completely false to me. Seems to me that some have made it seem that this is the case, so that they can fill the need that has been created.
 
Rob Ford's base is from a feeling of frustration, plain and simple. It boils down to frustration. Toronto isn't a gravy train, it is one of the least corrupt major cities on the planet, but after years of change people sometimes grow frustrated. A $60 car tax may not seem like much to us on here, but in the real world it affects people. That issue alone feeds a "gravy train" image that is easily invoked by emotion rather than rationality, and as we all know people vote on emotion largely as much as rationality. It's just the way things are...

Right wing politicians tend to have the easy side of an argument, they scream lower taxes and less interference (whether they mean it or not is another thing, but they say it). People who have frustrations easily buy into it. These are easy votes. You'll never be able to "rationalize" a $60 fee to someone, for example.

Miller's government left Toronto with a surplus, afterall, so I don't see any massive budgeting problems here. But emotion rules the day in the world of reality, so gravy train it is. Especially in Etobicoke...
 
Wow, people were furious when Rob used "oriental". Now somebody is talking about excluding immigrants and people with religious background from our democratic system, yet I don't see many "progressive" people protest. Why? Because the immigrants didn't vote your way. Nice.

Guess what, this is how our democratic system work. You don't like it, try to install a progressive dictator.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top