596 Church Street (Church 18 Holdings, 25s, RAW) DEAD

[Torontovibe]

The tower is not very interesting (another glass box) but I like the way it works on the street level and I like the fact that it adds new retail to Church Street. I want to see Church Street develop retail all the way up to Bloor, as well as the parking lots south of Carlton. Loblaws will certainly animate things.

 

[cdr108]

from the looks of it, 580 + 582 + 592 have been moved forward closer to the property lines (580 + 582 still set-back); and 584 will be demolished.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

from the looks of it, 580 + 582 + 592 have been moved forward closer to the property lines (580 + 582 still set-back); and 584 will be demolished.

This looks pretty uninspiring to me, but the basic idea is OK if so many buildings didn't have to come down. It also looks like 596 Church and presumably 61 & 67 Gloucester will be demolished.

 

[interchange42]

WOW. We owe it to the developer to throw out support behind this one... looks like a beautiful project, and continues the excellent precedent set by FIVE St. Joseph:

SOURCE: Raw Design

I'm not feeling it: it looks too bulky to me, it's immediately to the east of 2 and 3 storey homes, the volumes don't seem to relate. Compare it in the last image to how slender the tower to its left is (41 Dundonald), and this suggests to me long narrow bowling-alley type layouts within... although I have no proof that will be the case.

I'd like the Design Review Panel to run this through their ringer a couple of times, and see what we get.

42

 

[condovo]

Your joking, right? It's all busy, diverse retail along there, and then the park on the east side past Dudley's Hardware & Ladybug Florists. Or should that and the 519 go too?

I was just in Cawthra Park on Sunday. The western half, from the AIDS Memorial to Church, is an absolute, inexcusable disgrace. The 519 is completely derelict in their stewardship of the park that surrounds them on three sides. Ideally, both should go; The 519 to a part of town where they might be more welcome (trust me, few who actually live in the 'hood and are accosted regularly by their drug-dealing, panhandling, homophobic 'clients' would mourn the loss) and the gaps in the block on Church built up, with generous passageways to the remaining park behind. Across the street, the run-down, lo-rise retail strip and The Beer Store, set behind a yawning parking lot, are crying out for redevelopment too.

I'm not feeling it: it looks too bulky to me, it's immediately to the east of 2 and 3 storey homes, the volumes don't seem to relate. Compare it in the last image to how slender the tower to its left is (41 Dundonald)...I'd like the Design Review Panel to run this through their ringer a couple of times, and see what we get.

42

I agree strongly. This is all very clumsy.

 

[greenleaf]

I'm not really liking this overall, but there are parts that are okay. The half in/half out balconies are nice, but the wrap around ones distort the building to me. It seems that the ground level treatment on the right track, but overall the building looks too...pudgy.

The design feels brutalist to me, despite all the glass.

 

[UrbanFervour]

Based on these renderings, I agree that this design should be refined by Design Review panel. The apartment at the corner of Church and Gloucester would not be a huge loss, in my opinion, but the clumsy facade-job on 592 Church and the demolition of the Gloucester-facing properties makes this proposal a bit of a write-off for me. I think a taller, skinner point tower would be better than a stubby, fat one here. I also think a smarter negotiation of new and old buildings (like the ballet school, for example) is in order.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

I was just in Cawthra Park on Sunday. The western half, from the AIDS Memorial to Church, is an absolute, inexcusable disgrace. The 519 is completely derelict in their stewardship of the park that surrounds them on three sides. Ideally, both should go; The 519 to a part of town where they might be more welcome (trust me, few who actually live in the 'hood and are accosted regularly by their drug-dealing, panhandling, homophobic 'clients' would mourn the loss) and the gaps in the block on Church built up, with generous passageways to the remaining park behind. Across the street, the run-down, lo-rise retail strip and The Beer Store, set behind a yawning parking lot, are crying out for redevelopment too.

The 519 is heavily used by the community, one only need check the information boards inside to confirm that. In a quarter century that I've lived around here I have never been accosted in front of, in, or near the park but I do see the homeless street kid population dramatically increase from May to September, some of whom call the park home until they're settled. As for the park itself it's a very important part of the fabric of the Church-Wellesley Village but once again I'll concede that the western half on the north side needs some attention including new street furniture, the water feature beautified and some landscaping would be in order but that's the City's responsibility, not the 519's. You have to admit though that the south side and the eastern part of the park is beautiful. All said, some of your comments are indeed valid, including the Beer Store property and the retail strip just south of it but that strip does provide a lot of activity during the day and late into the evening, save for the former yet to be rented Pizza Nova property.

 

[Parkdalian]

Agree with Interchange and Urbanfervour. This needs some strong editing. Doesn't look like any heritage is being really saved. Just sat on and bossed around.

And hands off Cawthra Park! It's a little ratty with homeless homos, but those homeless homos need some place to go.

 

[condovo]

The 519 is heavily used by the community, one only need check the information boards inside to confirm that. In a quarter century that I've lived around here I have never been accosted in front of, in, or near the park but I do see the homeless street kid population dramatically increase from May to September, some of whom call the park home until they're settled. As for the park itself it's a very important part of the fabric of the Church-Wellesley Village but once again I'll concede that the western half on the north side needs some attention including new street furniture, the water feature beautified and some landscaping would be in order but that's the City's responsibility, not the 519's. You have to admit though that the south side and the eastern part of the park is beautiful. All said, some of your comments are indeed valid, including the Beer Store property and the retail strip just south of it but that strip does provide a lot of activity during the day and late into the evening, save for the former yet to be rented Pizza Nova property.

When I passed through Cawthra Park this past weekend the western half was absolutely covered in litter. Covered. Stewardship would involve The 519 picking up some that garbage from time to time. Stewardship would involve The 519 championing the rehabilitation of the western half of the park. Stewardship would involve working with residents on Montieth St to control nightly crack brawls in the park. The list goes on.

After being harassed repeatedly by aggressive, homophobic 519 'clients' some years ago and attending a community meeting at the agency over such issues, it was impressed upon those gathered that philosophically/ideologically The 519 was opposed to any intervention in the park and that local residents, including elderly LGBTs, were to be viewed with utter contempt.

I suppose one positive outcome of 596 Church going through would be the attendant bourgeois shift, however slight, which could help reclaim Cawthra Park for the Gaybourhood at long last.

 

[Rowe]

I love the idea of the project, but it feels too.. fake? It doesn't feel like the Canadian National Ballet or Five Condos.

 

[Peepers]

I think they really need to go back to the drawing board with this one and come up with a plan that would preserve most of the heritage frontages. This plan would wipe out the buildings on Gloucester which have much character and great potential if cleaned up. This project needs to be more like Five St. Joseph. To accomplish this would require a building with a smaller floor plate. To compensate I would allow the developer to build a much taller tower perhaps 40 - 50 floors. Also I think they need to design a simple elegant tower this design is just too clumsy.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

When I passed through Cawthra Park this past weekend the western half was absolutely covered in litter. Covered. Stewardship would involve The 519 picking up some that garbage from time to time. Stewardship would involve The 519 championing the rehabilitation of the western half of the park. Stewardship would involve working with residents on Montieth St to control nightly crack brawls in the park. The list goes on.

After being harassed repeatedly by aggressive, homophobic 519 'clients' some years ago and attending a community meeting at the agency over such issues, it was impressed upon those gathered that philosophically/ideologically The 519 was opposed to any intervention in the park and that local residents, including elderly LGBTs, were to be viewed with utter contempt.

I suppose one positive outcome of 596 Church going through would be the attendant bourgeois shift, however slight, which could help reclaim Cawthra Park for the Gaybourhood at long last.

I was through today (pics. tomorrow, I've one more photo to take of the buildings across the street) and didn't notice any garbage, not to say it wasn't there when you were through there on the weekend. That side area is their garbage area so it's possible that it isn't being kept as clean as it should. What is a mess is the front of the north end of the park by Church Street where construction materials are being stored for street work that's been under construction for about two months now.

As for the 519 I'm surprised at your comments re: intervention with "trouble" in the park. I know of a resident on Monteith Street (this story is legendary, and continues through legal channels so I've been told) who was so fed up with noise & shenanigans in the park by night that he installed video cameras from his row-house and would call the police each time there was an incident. The police finally told him not to bother them anymore, as the story has been told to me. Now the 519 is another pickle. They have two mercury vapor lights that have been burned out since last fall on the north side of the building which exclusively illuminates the front of the park but no one will return my calls or emails to get the lights working again. I'm now trying to get it done through Parks & Rec., the 519 has been less than co-operative in this matter.

As for the buildings you suggest should be taken down I photographed the east and west side of the street from Wellesley to Dundonald Sts. for the benefit of those who aren't familiar with this area. This area is directly south of the proposed 596 Church Street site.

Click on the thumbnail to enlarge, then click again on the image for full size.

The east side of Church Street from Wellesley to the 519 Community Centre -



The west side of Church Street from Wellesley to Dundonald Street

 

[condovo]

^^ I don't want the heritage buildings on those stretches to be taken down. I'm suggesting that the gaps on west side of Church/Cawthra Park be filled in and built up in line with 519, with a couple of generous, gated passages/porte-cochères leading to the remainder of the park behind. The surrounding residents and/or city would hold the keys to said gates and be obligated to lock and unlock them by day or night accordingly. I realize this would never fly in politically correct Toronto but it works quite well in Manhattan. Hey, let's move the 596 development across the street and kill two birds with one stone! Oh, and The Beer Store and lo-rise strip to the south must be vaporized.

(ps. I think you meant to say that you're NOT surprised by my comments about The 519's non-intervention. Right?)

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

(ps. I think you meant to say that you're NOT surprised by my comments about The 519's non-intervention. Right?)

I am surprised. I'd have thought that the 519 would be concerned and responsive about those causing trouble (drinking, taking/selling drugs, aggressive panhandling or whatever the problems may be) in the park around the community centre.

Agreed re: The Beer Store too. The property should have been built closer to the street with parking and deliveries in behind but they again those beer delivery trucks are pretty long. I don't so much mind the somewhat run down retail strip to the south but your right, it does need a little TLC & updating.