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2023 Toronto Mayoral by-election

Who gets your vote for Mayor of Toronto?

  • Ana Bailao

    Votes: 18 16.4%
  • Brad Bradford

    Votes: 3 2.7%
  • Olivia Chow

    Votes: 58 52.7%
  • Mitzie Hunter

    Votes: 2 1.8%
  • Josh Matlow

    Votes: 20 18.2%
  • Mark Saunders

    Votes: 4 3.6%
  • Other

    Votes: 5 4.5%

  • Total voters
    110
  • Poll closed .
These two quotes are contradictory. Name recognition is everything in city elections, absent something really outrageous, which, I don't see happening to Chow, or someone with even better name recognition running. This is not an election for one term for mayor. This is an election for a one decade mayor. While I'm OK with Chow, I would much prefer Matlow, since he does seem to be somewhat interested in the minutiae of running the city.
Rob Ford ran on stopping the gravy train, John Tory pushed SmartTrack. Olivia Chow hasn’t presented anything of real substance or catchy. If she wins, she is winning based on name recognition in a by-election where most people don’t want to pay attention to. “I’m Olivia Chow and I love Toronto” is all I have really heard from her. Name recognition is very important in an election like this but it’s not everything. If name recognition was everything, Olivia Chow should have been elected in 2014. That said, with what looks to be a very low turnout for the election and without another contender to capture the attention away from Chow, it seems Chow will walk into this vital role because she is Olivia Chow, not because she presented something that rang true with voters.

Given Chow’s political leaning, if she gets a lot of left leaning politics passed through council, I firmly believe there will be negative results down the road. I think people will grow tired of it all. I do think she could win another term in 2026 with the power of the incumbency, however, unless she proves to be a truly effective leader that produces results that will please Toronto residents across the board, I seriously doubt she would still be the mayor past 2030. By then, I think the city will be asking for change, much like how we went from David Miller to Rob Ford and then found the safe, middle road with John Tory. Maybe I will be wrong, and maybe Chow will prove to be the best mayor the city ever had. I will eat crow if that happens... but I don't see things working out wonderfully if she is mayor for a long time. Like I said, I see a mayoral career with Olivia Chow going from high popularity to problematic to disastrous.

As for Josh Matlow, I personally think he would be a disaster for the city and given his reputation as being stuck up and difficult to work with, I don’t see a majority of city council members working well with him at all. I want to believe in a mayor who will try to work with everyone, not a small few group. Sometimes you can be a great political leader in a single ward you represent but that doesn’t mean you would be a great leader for an entire city. That’s how I felt about Rob Ford (who I think was not overly effective as mayor) and that’s how I feel about Olivia Chow, Josh Matlow and Brad Bradford now. The only two serious contenders I see representing the city as a whole are Ana Bailao and Mitzie Hunter.
 
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Rob Ford ran on stopping the gravity train, John Tory pushed SmartTrack. Olivia Chow hasn’t presented anything of real substance or catchy. If she wins, she is winning based on name recognition in a by-election where most people don’t want to pay attention to. “I’m Olivia Chow and I love Toronto” is all I have really heard from her. Name recognition is very important in an election like this but it’s not everything. If name recognition was everything, Olivia Chow should have been elected in 2014. That said, with what looks to be a very low turnout for the election and without another contender to capture the attention away from Chow, it seems Chow will walk into this vital role because she is Olivia Chow, not because she presented something that rang true with voters.

Given Chow’s political leaning, if she gets a lot of left leaning politics passed through council, I firmly believe there will be negative results down the road. I think people will grow tired of it all. I do think she could win another term in 2026 with the power of the incumbency, however, unless she proves to be a truly effective leader that produces results that will please Toronto residents across the board, I seriously doubt she would still be the mayor past 2030. By then, I think the city will be asking for change, much like how we went from David Miller to Rob Ford and then found the safe, middle road with John Tory. Maybe I will be wrong, and maybe Chow will prove to be the best mayor the city ever had. I will eat crow if that happens... but I don't see things working out wonderfully if she is mayor for a long time. Like I said, I see a mayoral career with Olivia Chow going from high popularity to problematic to disastrous.

As for Josh Matlow, I personally think he would be a disaster for the city and given his reputation as being stuck up and difficult to work with, I don’t see a majority of city council members working well with him at all. I want to believe in a mayor who will try to work with everyone, not a small few group. Sometimes you can be a great political leader in a single ward you represent but that doesn’t mean you would be a great leader for an entire city. That’s how I felt about Rob Ford (who I think was not overly effective as mayor) and that’s how I feel about Olivia Chow, Josh Matlow and Brad Bradford now. The only two serious contenders I see representing the city as a whole are Ana Bailao and Mitzie Hunter.

Yes because "safe, middle road" has done Toronto so much good over the years...
 
Rob Ford ran on stopping the gravity train, John Tory pushed SmartTrack. Olivia Chow hasn’t presented anything of real substance or catchy.

Now that's funny.(bold)

If she wins, she is winning based on name recognition in a by-election where most people don’t want to pay attention to. “I’m Olivia Chow and I love Toronto” is all I have really heard from her. Name recognition is very important in an election like this but it’s not everything. If name recognition was everything, Olivia Chow should have been elected in 2014. That said, with what looks to be a very low turnout for the election and without another contender to capture the attention away from Chow, it seems Chow will walk into this vital role because she is Olivia Chow, not because she presented something that rang true with voters.

There is nothing substantive about running against the 'gravy train'; Rob didn't improve efficiency at City Hall by one iota, nor did he have a plan to do so.

Smart Track was patently absurd, back-of-the-napkin nonsense from everyone's favourite self-promoting would-be transportation expert It was utter nonsense, and anyone who paid attention saw through it. Tory was not elected on it. He was elected on not being a Ford.

Given Chow’s political leaning, if she gets a lot of left leaning politics passed through council, I firmly believe there will be negative results down the road. I think people will grow tired of it all.

What a bizarre assertion for which you have provided no evidence. What 'left leaning stuff' would be so bad? What are you talking about? I'm perfectly fine w/you disagreeing with something Chow stands for or is committed to, but please spell it out, rather than waving your hand dramatically about and yelling but she's no good without saying why.

By then, I think the city will be asking for change, much like how we went from David Miller to Rob Ford and then found the safe, middle road with John Tory.

John Tory did not govern as a centrist, he penny-pinched all the way, cutting City services to the bone, starving them of resources and left the City worse than when he was elected. He didn't even govern as 'progressive, conservative', but rather as an arch one.

Its only that his rhetoric was moderate, his substance was not.

As for Josh Matlow, I personally think he would be a disaster for the city and given his reputation as being stuck up and difficult to work with, I don’t see a majority of city council members working well with him at all.

Josh might be an issue in respect of his ability to play well w/others; but he's by far the best policy wonk of the leading candidates.

I want to believe in a mayor who will try to work with everyone, not a small few group.

The last mayor to meet that criteria was Miller; Tory has kept a very tight circle and almost entirely excluded the left from power. He made nice w/Cressy for a bit; but that's about it.
 
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And if we go more in the direction of cities like Vancouver and San Francisco, do you think we'll improve?

If we go in the direction of "continue to restrict density and transit in favor of suburbia and the car, resulting in record high housing prices" then we will never improve.

That's why those cities have problems... or did you think it was liberals?
 
And if we go more in the direction of cities like Vancouver and San Francisco, do you think we'll improve?

Your just pulling random stuff out the sky!

What policy is it that Chow or Matlow have advocated that you feel would be bad, and how does that relate to either SF or Vancouver?

The Mayors of Edmonton and Calgary were left-centre, so is the mayor of Montreal, and Mayors in London, UK and Paris, France......

You have this odd obsession with hating 'left-ness' without any material explanation of what policy you actually dislike.

Is it the high minimum wage in SF? Or the limits on chain-retail? Is it Vancouver's desire for more bike lanes and carsharing?
 
Now that's funny.(bold)



There is nothing substantive about running against the 'gravy train'; Rob didn't improve efficiency at City Hall by one iota, nor did he have a plan to do so.

Smart Track was patently absurd, back-of-the-napkin nonsense from everyone's favourite self-promoting would-be transportation expert It was utter nonsense, and anyone who paid attention saw through it. Tory was not elected on it. He was elected on not being a Ford.



What a bizarre assertion for which you have provided no evidence. What 'left leaning stuff' would be so bad? What are you talking about? I'm perfectly fine w/you disagreeing with something Chow stands for or is committed to, but please spell it out, rather than waving your hand dramatically about and yelling but she's no good without saying why.



John Tory did not govern as a centrist, he penny-pinched all the way, cutting City services to the bone, starving them of resources and left the City worse than when he was elected. He didn't even govern as 'progressive, conservative', but rather as an arch one.

Its only that his rhetoric was moderate, his substance was not.



Josh might be an issue in respect of his ability to play well w/others; but he's by far the best policy wonk of the leading candidates.



The last mayor to meet criteria was Miller; Tory has kept a very tight circle and almost entirely excluded the left from power. He made nice w/Cressy for a bit; but that's about it.

My mistake with the grammar error. Thanks for pointing it out.

A) I'm not saying Ford improved anything at city hall. I wanted George Smitherman elected in 2010.
B) Tory ran on SmartTrack. It was his signature campaign promise, regardless if it worked out or not. I know people who liked his SmartTrack plan and yes, he was not like Rob Ford. That said, SmartTrack played a factor in his 2014 win. What's Olivia Chow's signature campaign piece? I'm waiting for it.
C) I have no evidence, however, based on what Chow has said in the past, what she has stood for, her hard left leanings and what is she likely to do (lots of taxes, as an example), I don't believe she will be the best mayor we could have. I said I could be wrong if she turns out to be a wonderful mayor. I will happily eat crow if I'm wrong. We will see what type of leader she is if she is elected.
D) John Tory approached overseeing council like a Red Tory. Rob Ford was hard-right. I saw Tory running the city as centre-right. And it looked like most residents were fine with that. As a Red Tory/Blue Liberal, I was happy with that.
E) I fully expect Josh Matlow to become Olivia Chow's key policy person and possibly her deputy mayor.
F) Most mayors will have a close group of people he or she will work with. That's nothing new and very common. I expect Olivia Chow to have a tight circle. I can see her working closely with members like Gord Perks, Alejandra Bravo, Matlow, etc.
 
C) I have no evidence

This is crucial; informed opinions should be derived from evidence.

, however, based on what Chow has said in the past, what she has stood for, her hard left leanings and what is she likely to do (lots of taxes, as an example)

What is 'lots of taxes'; and seeing as the City requires more $$ for transit, parks, public realm, pot holes, street cleaning, garbage pick-up, shelters/housing and libraries to name but a few; how would you proposed to pay
for these without some additional taxes?

D) John Tory approached overseeing council like a Red Tory. Rob Ford was hard-right. I saw Tory running the city as centre-right. And it looked like most residents were fine with that. As a Red Tory/Blue Liberal, I was happy with that.

I don't agree at all. David Crombie was a red tory as mayor; Bill Davis was a red tory as premier, John Tory was neither. He accomplished slightly less than nothing during his tenure in office.

E) I fully expect Josh Matlow to become Olivia Chow's key policy person and possibly her deputy mayor.

An interesting supposition; I'd be curious to know if you any reason to believe that to be the case?

F) Most mayors will have a close group of people he or she will work with. That's nothing new and very common. I expect Olivia Chow to have a tight circle. I can see her working closely with members like Gord Perks, Alejandra Bravo, Matlow, etc.

Miller had players across the political spectrum who worked closely with him; the same was not true of Tory for the most part.

Yes, I would expect Chow to work with NDP councillors, whether or not she will include a mix from across the political spectrum I truly don't know; though she will need some non-NDP votes to get things passed.
 
D) John Tory approached overseeing council like a Red Tory. Rob Ford was hard-right. I saw Tory running the city as centre-right. And it looked like most residents were fine with that. As a Red Tory/Blue Liberal, I was happy with that.

It's all neo-liberal. It's just the Overton window giving you the illusion that there is any difference at all.
 
This is crucial; informed opinions should be derived from evidence.
Given that she has sat in opposition positions during her political career, supported some outlandish things in the past and what she believes in, I don't have confidence in her ability to lead the city forward in the most manageable way.
What is 'lots of taxes'; and seeing as the City requires more $$ for transit, parks, public realm, pot holes, street cleaning, garbage pick-up, shelters/housing and libraries to name but a few; how would you proposed to pay
for these without some additional taxes?
"I am ready to tax!" That alone doesn't sit well with me, especially that the NDP are known for always looking to taxes. Ask Bob Rae how things went when the NDP oversaw the province for a term. Unless taxes are kept as low as possible or if they have to go up at all, it's very small, there is no reason to believe that she would push for more taxes across the city. And especially seeing how expensive life is right now, I don't support the possibility of taxes going up and up and up. The fact is the provincial and federal governments need to cut new deals with the city.
I don't agree at all. David Crombie was a red tory as mayor; Bill Davis was a red tory as premier, John Tory was neither. He accomplished slightly less than nothing during his tenure in office.
Agree to disagree with you. John Tory is a pure Red Tory in my eyes. And while I wish Tory had accomplished more, I liked his approach to city politics.
An interesting supposition; I'd be curious to know if you any reason to believe that to be the case?
I suspect he would be a close right-hand man to Chow as he will likely align with her on many policy items and even though he will not be mayor, I can't see her not bringing him into her possible political circle. Like picking a running mate, sometimes you pick the person you were competitive against as you know the partnership will help lead to results you want. Perhaps he wouldn't be a deputy mayor under Chow, but I think he would want to work closely with her, and I think she'll allow it as they have similar ideas.
Miller had players across the political spectrum who worked closely with him; the same was not true of Tory for the most part.

Yes, I would expect Chow to work with NDP councillors, whether or not she will include a mix from across the political spectrum I truly don't know; though she will need some non-NDP votes to get things passed.
I give Tory credit for trying to work with mostly everyone. He did have some that fought him on everything. I don't blame him for having a tight circle though. With our current political climate, I would be shocked if Chow managed to work well with the majority of council members. If she comes into office and we can see she is trying to rope council together so things can be done as a collective whole, I will give her nothing but props for that.
 
And if we go more in the direction of cities like Vancouver and San Francisco, do you think we'll improve?
Both those cities have similar problems. My objection is that the debates are about things the mayor has little control over - the mayor doesn't control food distribution network, can't stop unnecessary development, has nothing to say about health care sector, education or the economy (i.e rents, house prices). The mayor can't do a lot of things but it seems the voters think they can. That's what I said about Trump, the whole election has been derailed by deflection - how is it that a city that has grown exponentially over the past decade (lots of new condos with property tax payers, lots of development with fees paid) still manages to get $1billion in the hole? We are not alone in facing these problems and we have to have specific solution intiated by our municipal government.
 
Given Chow’s political leaning, if she gets a lot of left leaning politics passed through council, I firmly believe there will be negative results down the road.
I'm voting for Chow for the very chaos it's bound to cause and the hilarious tantrums it can only provoke from Doug.

It's not that I don't know what she's about, it's about wanting to cause some sh#t. Muahahaha, bwahahaha!
 
I'm more interested in looking at actual policy proposals and discussing their virtues/risks/costs than imagining what someone might do in some vague way.

I like this promise, from yesterday....:

1685383994486.png


With one important * I know what the cost of open hours expansion has been pegged at in the past, and its a fair bit more than 5M; I'm entirely curious as to where her campaign got that number from.

The 2023 budget has these numbers:

1685384267692.png


Her plan actually calls for more Sunday service than is proposed in the open hours strategy, but may call for less at other times (not clear)
 
I'm voting for Chow for the very chaos it's bound to cause and the hilarious tantrums it can only provoke from Doug.

It's not that I don't know what she's about, it's about wanting to cause some sh#t. Muahahaha, bwahahaha!
I want someone who will try to work with the premier. Maybe I'm crazy to think that. 🤷‍♂️
 
I want someone who will try to work with the premier. Maybe I'm crazy to think that. 🤷‍♂️

Ya actively seeking the Premier to further handcuff us isn't the way to go.
But the upside is that maybe they dissolve the city entirely and queens park has to run it and actually pay for the services they downloaded.
 

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