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2022/24 Russian-Ukrainian War
- Thread starter Towered
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‘Extremely fierce’ fighting as Russian forces resist Ukrainian counteroffensive. Kyiv and western sources issue downbeat assessment as Moscow targets supply lines in Odesa with deadly cruise missile strike
Kyiv has said its troops are battling under Russian “air and artillery superiority” as cruise missiles targeting the supply lines of the Ukrainian counteroffensive killed three people working a nightshift in a warehouse in the southern city of Odesa.
The country’s deputy defence minister, Hanna Maliar, said she could report just partial success over the last 24 hours, during which the progress of Ukraine’s forces had been measured only in the hundreds of metres as they sought to advance in the east and south.
Western officials added to the sombre tone as they briefed that Ukraine was taking significant casualties and making slow progress towards Russia’s main line of defence, in one of the west’s first assessments of the Ukrainian counteroffensive launched on 4 June.
“The Russian manoeuvre and defence approach is proving challenging for Ukraine and costly to attacking forces, hence the advance at the moment is slow,” an official said. They added that “grinding, costly warfare” was likely for many months to come.
“This is incredibly difficult,” the official said. “They are going against a well-prepared line that the Russians have had months to prepare.”
The downbeat assessments came as what was described as extremely fierce fighting spilled over again into Ukraine’s urban centres. Kalibr missiles hit Odesa at 2.40am on Wednesday, setting a warehouse, a business centre, an educational institution, restaurants and shops ablaze.
It was a one of a number of attacks across the country on Wednesday that left 13 civilians dead and 24 injured. The death toll from a strike on a warehouse and apartment block in Kryvyi Rih was also raised to 12 after the death of a 67-year-old man in hospital overnight.
See: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...lls-three-people-working-in-warehouse-ukraine
Kyiv has said its troops are battling under Russian “air and artillery superiority” as cruise missiles targeting the supply lines of the Ukrainian counteroffensive killed three people working a nightshift in a warehouse in the southern city of Odesa.
The country’s deputy defence minister, Hanna Maliar, said she could report just partial success over the last 24 hours, during which the progress of Ukraine’s forces had been measured only in the hundreds of metres as they sought to advance in the east and south.
Western officials added to the sombre tone as they briefed that Ukraine was taking significant casualties and making slow progress towards Russia’s main line of defence, in one of the west’s first assessments of the Ukrainian counteroffensive launched on 4 June.
“The Russian manoeuvre and defence approach is proving challenging for Ukraine and costly to attacking forces, hence the advance at the moment is slow,” an official said. They added that “grinding, costly warfare” was likely for many months to come.
“This is incredibly difficult,” the official said. “They are going against a well-prepared line that the Russians have had months to prepare.”
The downbeat assessments came as what was described as extremely fierce fighting spilled over again into Ukraine’s urban centres. Kalibr missiles hit Odesa at 2.40am on Wednesday, setting a warehouse, a business centre, an educational institution, restaurants and shops ablaze.
It was a one of a number of attacks across the country on Wednesday that left 13 civilians dead and 24 injured. The death toll from a strike on a warehouse and apartment block in Kryvyi Rih was also raised to 12 after the death of a 67-year-old man in hospital overnight.
See: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...lls-three-people-working-in-warehouse-ukraine
kEiThZ
Superstar
I would ignore the horse race reporting. As Gen Ryan also advised. The Ukrainians are going to have good days and bad days. Such is life and war. The breathless reporting everytime they have a bad day is terrible. A Ukrainian officer recently called it out. He was in the infamous brigade that had a bad breach and lost some Leopards and Bradleys. He called out the media that uncritically report extremely inflated Russian claims of them taking hundreds of casualties. Turns out they took 5 KIA.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Merkavas for Ukraine? Perhaps Lavrov’s earlier antisemitic comments are coming home to roost.
www.jpost.com
Israel plans first-ever sale of flagship Merkava tank to European country
Israeli defense products are seeing record demand due to the high cost of supplying Ukraine in its fight against Russia's invasion.
www.jpost.com
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kEiThZ
Superstar
Highly capable. But Ukraine hasn't trained on them. I wonder if the gameplan here is to give them to another country who can then send them Leopards or Eastern block tanks Ukraine is familiar with.
kEiThZ
Superstar
For some reason the Russian Orthodox Church transferred Ukrainian PoWs to Hungary without telling Ukraine.
www.reuters.com
We really need to have discussions about Hungary in NATO and the EU. This contravenes all kinds of international law.
Hungary receives Ukrainian POWs from Russia, Ukraine says not informed
Hungary said on Friday it had received a group of Ukrainian prisoners of war from Russia, a release that Ukraine welcomed while expressing concern that it had not been informed.
www.reuters.com
We really need to have discussions about Hungary in NATO and the EU. This contravenes all kinds of international law.
Richard White
Senior Member
For some reason the Russian Orthodox Church transferred Ukrainian PoWs to Hungary without telling Ukraine.
Hungary receives Ukrainian POWs from Russia, Ukraine says not informed
Hungary said on Friday it had received a group of Ukrainian prisoners of war from Russia, a release that Ukraine welcomed while expressing concern that it had not been informed.
We really need to have discussions about Hungary in NATO and the EU. This contravenes all kinds of international law.
Oi vey!
No matter what I say, I will be crucified here but for once I agree with you.
For what it's worth my cousin is a member of the Hungarian Armed Forces and will be deployed to Lebanon shortly.
kEiThZ
Superstar
It's great for his service and all. But the issue here is a government that is growing increasingly aligned with an adversary of NATO and the EU. It's not about whether Hungary contributes otherwise peacekeepers to a mission in Lebanon.
I personally think that the Hungarian people still sufficiently support this. Either by action (their voting numbers) or inaction (lack of protests or voting against the government). But that is irrelevant to the broader issue of interstate relationships with Hungary. If their public can't change their government, then the international community has to deal with the Hungarian government who is there. And that means, NATO and the EU have to come to grips with a member state seeking to substantially undermine these very institutions.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Interesting that we're getting to the bottom of the barrel in some parts. They are using half a century old tanks as makeshift artillery pieces. This is very revealing of the state of affairs for the Russians.
Towered
Senior Member
Let's hope a collapse is imminent. I'm getting impatient
Richard White
Senior Member
They do protest and they don't like Orban BUT Orban controls the media and rigged the voting
A few years ago he redefined the boundaries and weighting for the ridings (for lack of a better term). Budapest overwhelming voted against him but the rural areas which have limited access to internet and skew older did not
It is interesting to note that the older, rural areas rely on state media primarily for their information.
Furthermore, he also controlled what the media as a whole is allowed to see. For example in Budapests Castle District where Orban lives (and where a massive reconstruction is taking place) the media is not allowed.
He has the country blinded and controls what information gets out.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Let's hope a collapse is imminent. I'm getting impatient
Unlikely. But it is a sign that the Ukrainian attrition campaign is working and that the Russians can't replace losses. Very different from what the panicky media takes are saying.
Also with news like the Merkava tanks and word that the Ukrainians are now training on the Gripen, it's starting to look like this famous movie scene for Russia:
lenaitch
Senior Member
For some reason the Russian Orthodox Church transferred Ukrainian PoWs to Hungary without telling Ukraine.
Hungary receives Ukrainian POWs from Russia, Ukraine says not informed
Hungary said on Friday it had received a group of Ukrainian prisoners of war from Russia, a release that Ukraine welcomed while expressing concern that it had not been informed.
We really need to have discussions about Hungary in NATO and the EU. This contravenes all kinds of international law.
From the link:
Hungary has not joined fellow EU and NATO members in giving military assistance to Ukraine and has repeatedly criticised EU sanctions against Russia, but eventually supported all the agreed measures so far.
Something . . . something, sucking and blowing.
Northern Light
Superstar
Only tangentially related to the War....probably..........though the occurance below is tied to the attendance of South Africa at a summit in Kiev, Ukraine, so it doesn't seem too much of a stretch.
Gist: South African presidential security delegation detained by Poland, on plane after:
a) Have personnel on board not made known to Poland in advance
b) Have a vast arsenal of weapons on board, also not made known to the Poles.
Said security delegation................ 120 members of the Special Forces.....
***
Not my field of expertise, but that security delegation seems a bit hefty.
South Africa's stranded presidential security team: Poland denies racism
South Africa's presidential security chief accuses Polish officials of racism as he is stranded in Warsaw.
www.bbc.com
Gist: South African presidential security delegation detained by Poland, on plane after:
a) Have personnel on board not made known to Poland in advance
b) Have a vast arsenal of weapons on board, also not made known to the Poles.
Said security delegation................ 120 members of the Special Forces.....
***
Not my field of expertise, but that security delegation seems a bit hefty.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Some disappointing news....
Accurate. So dumb not to give them F-16s before the offensive or ATACMS to destroy those airfields. Or enough air defences to cover the force.
The Russians are cynically evil too. They keep attacking cities so that the Ukrainians are forced to keep their air defences there.
We'll see if some expensive Storm Shadows can blunt some of this. But it's sad that the Ukrainians have to use really expensive Storm Shadows for this.
Accurate. So dumb not to give them F-16s before the offensive or ATACMS to destroy those airfields. Or enough air defences to cover the force.
The Russians are cynically evil too. They keep attacking cities so that the Ukrainians are forced to keep their air defences there.
We'll see if some expensive Storm Shadows can blunt some of this. But it's sad that the Ukrainians have to use really expensive Storm Shadows for this.