2018 Ontario Provincial Election Discussion

[King of Kensington]

The win is at the centre!

Steve Paikin, is that you?

 

[TrickyRicky]

Hydro costs themselves are the poster child for the greater issue which is massive year over year increases in costs. These labour law proposals will escalate costs not lower them. They may also be counter-productive in dampening business investment and hiring at a time when Wynne would otherwise be benefiting from economic tailwinds. Interesting to see how it plays out.

I have several options in front of me as to how to operate my investment activity. Wynne government policy has convinced me that it is best to avoid creating an entity that hires people at all costs in this Province. Best to do what you can yourself and outsource and contract out as many functions as possible.

 

[Amare]

Well, looks like Wynne has a viable strategy to win after all. She's pitching an historic change to labour laws.

Even that wont be enough to save Wynne. She's been Premier for 4 years, had a majority for almost 3 years and they come up with these "sweeping changes" after all this time? It makes you wonder what on earth her government has been up to since they were elected with a majority government.

This government has been acting like they're a minority government walking on eggshells with everything they do ever since they've been elected.

 

[steveintoronto]

Steve Paikin, is that you?

lol...no, but I have immense respect for the man. I remember when he read the news for CBC. He was outstanding then, and now pretty much carries TVO.

Are you Al Waxman?

 

[freshcutgrass]

she'd best learn to say: "Exit, stage left".

Uh...that's my line.

 

[steveintoronto]

Uh...that's my line.

Damn, snagged by Snagglepuss...

But back on topic, I thought I'd Google to find out more on Kathleen's walk on the wild left side, and speaking of pink Liberals...errr....I'm getting flashbacks from the pink microdots, perhaps laced with cyanide, or mercury from Grassy Narrows?

If adopted, the proposals contained in the recently released interim report to amend Ontario’s Labour Relations Act, 1995, and Employment Standards Act, 2000, The Changing Workplaces Review, by Premier Kathleen Wynne, would make the province the most radical left-wing environment for businesses in the Western world, and would go a long way toward ensuring that no foreign business would ever again invest in it.

The rationale for the report appears predicated upon Ontario employers purportedly shirking their employment standards obligations and exploiting largely minimum wage workers. As the Toronto Star exposed, even when there is an Order to Pay by the Employment Standards Branch (ESB), most employers simply ignore it, (often because they are insolvent and can’t).

Abuse of employment standards is serious but should be dealt with by tightening legislative loopholes and rigorous enforcement. Instead, this government has used these abuses as a pretense to create a wholesale shift of power to Ontario unions and demolish what few employer rights remain.

The proposed legislation would lead to increasing insolvencies by marginal employers, which are the root cause of non payment to employees in the first instance. Short of the government paying these workers on insolvent employers’ behalf, which this debt and deficit ridden government cannot afford, there is no other solution.

At the end of the day, there is little else one can do about recovering monies from bankrupt businesses, other than making their officers and directors liable for unpaid wages, of which they are already.

Here are some of these proposed options (changes):
[...continues...]

http://business.financialpost.com/e...ur-relations-changes-could-mean-for-employers

Holy Pink Pepto-Bismol Batman! I'm getting bad acid flashback indigestion, and repetitive gut feelings and gas plant cancellations. (The tailpipe stench is awful)

Here's the date for that article:
Here’s what Ontario’s proposed labour relations changes could mean for employers

Howard Levitt | September 27, 2016 4:45 PM ET
And it is the highly Opinionated Post, but in all Credit to Levitt, he's highly qualified to write about this:

Howard Levitt is senior partner of Levitt LLP, employment and labour lawyers. He practises employment law in eight provinces. Employment Law Hour with Howard Levitt airs Sundays at 1 p.m. on NEWSTALK 1010 in Toronto.

Yikes...I'm a little inebriated right now (lol..."overworked and underpaid!"), but this is like a Twilight Zoned Out episode where the GO train is actually a loop on a table top, and the protagonist of the story keeps leaving and arriving from/to the same station.

A married couple, Bob and Millie Frazier, wake up in an unfamiliar house. They remember only that they both drank too much at a party the night before, and that on the way home, a large shadow had appeared over their car.

They soon discover that the house is mostly props—the telephone has no connection, the cabinetry is merely glued-on facing, the refrigerator is filled with plastic food. They hear a girl's laughter and go outside to find the child. However, once outside, they discover that the town is deserted. They find a stuffed squirrel in a (later discovered fake) tree, search for help in a vacant church, and ring the bell in the church's bell tower hoping someone will come to their aid. When no one comes to help them, the increasingly desperate couple discovers even the trees are fake and the grass is papier-mâché. The exasperated Millie begins to think that perhaps she crashed their car on the way home, and they are now in Hell. They hear a train whistle and, thinking they have finally found a way out of the town, rush to the train station and board the empty train. As the train leaves the station (revealed to be in "Centerville"), they begin a light-hearted conversation, vastly relieved. However, when the train soon comes to a stop again in Centerville, they realize it has only gone in a circle, and they are back where they started.

They leave the train and return to the center of town, once again hearing a little girl's laughter, A shadow falls over them, and they flee, only to be scooped up by the hand of a gigantic child. The little girl's mother says, "Be careful with your pets, dear--your father brought them all the way from Earth." At her mother's bidding, the little girl drops the couple back into the town, which is now revealed to be a model village with a miniature railway running around it.

As the terrified couple stumblingly resume their running, Rod Serling, in voiceover, sardonically reminds the viewer not to drink and drive. [...]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stopover_in_a_Quiet_Town

Flash forward:

Big changes considered for Ontario workplaces
Report could trigger the most sweeping reforms to employment and labour laws since the 1990s
By Mike Crawley, CBC News Posted: Feb 27, 2017 5:00 AM ET Last Updated: Feb 27, 2017 4:58 PM ET

[...]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-changing-workplaces-review-labour-law-1.3994571

 

[adma]

Del Duca's seat is fairly safe.

The only time Conservatives ever win in this riding is when they run a 'star' candidate (ex. Palladini, Fantino).

And in both those cases, it was an open seat--through Greg Sorbara's first retirement in Palladini's case, and though Bevilacqua's jump to the Vaughan mayoralty in Fantino's case.

 

[steveintoronto]

it was an open seat--through Greg Sorbara's first retirement in Palladini's case

Yeah, the Sorbara Dynasty...

See:
Greg Sorbara dismisses 'myth' of gas plant scandal - Toronto - CBC ...
www.cbc.ca/news/.../greg-sorbara-dismisses-myth-of-gas-plant-scandal-1.2825246
Nov 5, 2014 - Ontario gas plant cancellation costs $675M, AG says · Ontario premier ... "That's just not true," Sorbara said in an interview with CBC Toronto.

And:
Two corruption trials for Liberals will overlap | Toronto Star
https://www.thestar.com › News › Queen's Park
Feb 8, 2017 - ... the other to the cancelled gas plants in Oakville and Mississauga. ... deputy chief of staff, Patricia Sorbara, will be in a Sudbury court Sept.
[...]

The train keeps going in circles, and it's gas powered...I'm getting the political spins...

 

[adma]

I believe IIRC, that Liz Sandals had announced she was not running again. She barely squeaked in in Guelph last election. Watch for that seat to go Tory.

Actually, not only has Sandals gotten consistent low-40s shares (and her only "squeaker" was vs PC incumbent Brenda Elliott, back when the seat included significant rural territory in '03), her 2014 margin was her strongest yet: almost double that of her PC competitor. In fact, it was a close 3-way race for *second*, with provincial Green leader Mike Schreiner being among the competition.

For that reason, except through province-wide landslide momentum or through a favourable split in the left, it's hard for me to really see Guelph going Tory, unless the provincial party got thoroughly Mike Chong-i-fied--in fact, the old Red Tory base is of the sort that'd more likely make this the first Green seat in Ontario.

 

[steveintoronto]

Actually, not only has Sandals gotten consistent low-40s shares (and her only "squeaker" was vs PC incumbent Brenda Elliott, back when the seat included significant rural territory in '03), her 2014 margin was her strongest yet: almost double that of her PC competitor. In fact, it was a close 3-way race for *second*, with provincial Green leader Mike Schreiner being among the competition.

For that reason, except through province-wide landslide momentum or through a favourable split in the left, it's hard for me to really see Guelph going Tory, unless the provincial party got thoroughly Mike Chong-i-fied--in fact, the old Red Tory base is of the sort that'd more likely make this the first Green seat in Ontario.

I stand corrected, albeit my claim stands that it might well go Conservative. The election of Cam Guthrie as Mayor (Guelph is a provincial riding as well as a city) heralded a swing back to the right.
Guelph Mercury:

[...]
Sandals trounced rookie Progressive Conservative candidate Anthony MacDonald by more than 10,000 votes, her largest margin of victory in her four successful campaigns.

MacDonald was Sandals' toughest critic during the campaign, denouncing the Liberal government for its wasteful spending and scandal-ridden administration and making every effort to link Sandals to the Liberal record of mismanagement. But it clearly did not work.

The Liberal majority outcome surprised most commentators, and even surprised the Sandals supporters who gathered Thursday night at the Guelph Golf and Curling Club to offer their candidate jubilant congratulations. A chorus of "four-peat" greeted Sandals when she arrived.[...]

https://www.guelphmercury.com/news-story/4576849-liberal-sandals-four-peats-in-guelph/

But beware! Same article continues:

"The ability to get the majority was very much about Kathleen, her personality and her leadership," she said.

Guess what?

And as much as the TorStun has an obvious agenda, there is a very real streak of a teetering dynasty displayed in this:

Liz Sandals causes another Liberal train wreck

First posted: Sunday, February 05, 2017 12:01 AM EST | Updated: Sunday, February 05, 2017 08:56 AM EST

Senior Ontario Liberal cabinet minister Liz Sandals says most of the people who ride on the Go Train don’t have exceptional talent.

Below is exactly what she said, after she was asked by the media Thursday what people who ride the Go Train should think of the massive salary hikes being proposed for senior public sector executives after a five-year wage freeze.

Government agencies like Ontario Power Generation (responsible for nuclear energy), Metrolinx and 24 community colleges have been asking for huge salary increases for senior executives as the freeze lifts.

For example, up to 50% for some community college presidents.

Replied Sandals upon leaving a Liberal cabinet meeting: “When you really stop and think of it, most people sitting on the Go Train probably don’t have high-level nuclear qualifications, or the business qualifications, to run a multi-billion-dollar corporation. The talent is exceptional to be in those exceptional positions.”

Oy vey! Who needs satire when Liberal cabinet ministers — Sandals holds the senior financial portfolio of treasury board president — say stuff like this?

First, Sandals wasn’t asked for her opinion on the qualifications of Go riders.

Second, even Deputy Premier Deb Mathews and Premier Kathleen Wynne, said many of the sought after wage hikes were too high and the government won’t pay them.

(This, no doubt, is why Sandals apologized for her “insensitive” remarks on Friday.)

Third, when it comes to “exceptional” intelligence, Sandals, as education minister, was the bright light who said in October 2015 that the Liberal government didn’t need itemized receipts for the $2.5 million it was giving to teacher unions to cover the cost of their contract talks with the government.

Why? Because as she put it at the time: “We know what hotel rooms cost, we know what meeting rooms cost, we know what the food costs, we know what 100 pizzas cost. You don’t need to see every bill when you’re doing an estimate of costs. I don’t ask.”

Oy vey, again.

The other question this begs is why are Liberal government agencies asking for huge raises for their executives after the five-year freeze?

When the Liberals told them to make their proposals, did they not explain that a “freeze” in salary doesn’t mean that at the end of the freeze you ask for a wage catch-up of up to 10% annually, for each of the previous five years?

That’s what some community colleges were requesting for their presidents and we see a similar spendthrift attitude in many of the requests from the public service.

Does no one in the Liberal cabinet understand that when you lift a salary freeze, annual pay increases should be at the same pace, or, considering Ontario’s dire financial straits, at a lower pace, than before the freeze was imposed?

Heck, any Go rider could have told them that.

http://www.torontosun.com/2017/02/04/liz-sandals-causes-another-liberal-train-wreck

Certainly not my newspaper, but they're asking the questions that many others are, and anyone thinking Kathleen Wynne is the gallant saviour of the party lives in the poll world of alternate facts. There's only one way for the Libs to curry majority favour of the electorate, and that's to clean house. And quickly.

Forget the bribes, they're not going to work. I dread the thought of the Cons or Dippers winning the next election, even slightly worse than the present status quo. I'm far from being alone, as the polls clearly show. This election is the Libs to win....if they change the cast. Or HMS Pinafore goes down.

 

[narduch]

Well, looks like Wynne has a viable strategy to win after all. She's pitching an historic change to labour laws.



These are some pretty dramatic changes that working class voters will have a hard time saying no to.

What it does from a strategic standpoint is force Patrick Brown's Conservatives into territory in which they cannot compete. Brown has been known to flip flop and chase policies popular with voters but if he agrees with and promises these things, then he's not a Conservative.

Secondly, some of these issues are so ideologically left that they'll steal quite a few NDP leaning voters too.

I think that it's a brilliant strategy and I'm beginning to see how Wynne can actually shift the odds of this election in her favour despite her hydro related unpopularity which she has time to correct.

The Liberals like to over-promise and under-deliver. I doubt they implement half these measures.

I have a friend that was recently on strike for almost 2 years and the Ontario Liberals did nothing about it. I don't trust them on labour issues.

 

[rbt]

I have a friend that was recently on strike for almost 2 years and the Ontario Liberals did nothing about it.

How would you have expected the government to intervene? Forcing the Union back to work without any changes (remove their right to strike), forcing the employer to meet the unions demands (remove their right to negotiate a contract they're bound to uphold), or forcing binding arbitration (which is really a combination of these 2 things); perhaps you have another option in mind?

 

[King of Kensington]

And it is the highly Opinionated Post, but in all Credit to Levitt, he's highly qualified to write about this:

I'm shocked, just shocked, that Howard Levitt opposes these proposed changes to the labor code.

 

[narduch]

How would you have expected the government to intervene? Forcing the Union back to work without any changes (remove their right to strike), forcing the employer to meet the unions demands (remove their right to negotiate a contract they're bound to uphold), or forcing binding arbitration (which is really a combination of these 2 things); perhaps you have another option in mind?

The earlier link said that Wynne is considering banning scabs in Ontario. That would be a start.

And yes, I do believe the Goverernment could put pressure on companies to bargain in good faith. Which in the example I know did not happen.

 

[Northern Light]

Well, looks like Wynne has a viable strategy to win after all. She's pitching an historic change to labour laws.



These are some pretty dramatic changes that working class voters will have a hard time saying no to.

What it does from a strategic standpoint is force Patrick Brown's Conservatives into territory in which they cannot compete. Brown has been known to flip flop and chase policies popular with voters but if he agrees with and promises these things, then he's not a Conservative.

Secondly, some of these issues are so ideologically left that they'll steal quite a few NDP leaning voters too.

I think that it's a brilliant strategy and I'm beginning to see how Wynne can actually shift the odds of this election in her favour despite her hydro related unpopularity which she has time to correct.

We should offer some clarity at this juncture.

That list is what was put out as options under consideration by the report's authors (as part of a much larger list) , early on, subject to feedback/consultation.

So it isn't yet clear what the report will even recommend.

What the government may implement from the report is yet another matter.

While I would personally support the majority of those items, I think there's a snowball's chance in hell of them all going through.

I'd love to be wrong on this one; but I don't see it in the cards.

I do think they'll do at least one, and maybe up to 3 or 4 of them.

Paid sick days is trending favourably in North America with several US states now requiring them. Though the question of how many and how they're accrued varies widely.

Currently no Canadian province requires them.

Paid Vacation going to 3 weeks sounds great; I get more than that, but I remember 2 weeks, and I didn't care for it.

Australia does 4 weeks as does the entire E.U.

However, the US requires none at the Federal level; and only one Canadian province has its base at three weeks (Saskatchewan). I could see mandated 3 weeks after 5 years as a 1/2 measure here, that would be roughly in line w/the majority of businesses and provinces.

I find it improbable that they'd go to 3 weeks paid vacation base AND do paid sick days at the same time; but again, I will gladly stand to be corrected.

Those 2 moves are the ones workers would feel most immediately. Changing unionization/strike rules would be popular w/labour but result in few immediate changes for workers.

Requiring advance notice of employment schedules seems quite reasonable; but legislation that part-time and full-time workers be treated equally in compensation would result in massive
disruption in many work places. (its still not a bad idea, per se, its all in the details) but lots of potential for business and union blow-back on that one.

The article feels like a trial balloon to me; to see what level of reaction is provoked good/bad in the media, with the public and business.

Then when it comes out, it will less than business feared; but with one or two popular items for workers.

Time will tell.