Videodrome
Senior Member
Christine Elliott wouldn't be doing this...
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2018 Ontario Provincial Election Discussion
- Thread starter MetroMan
- Start date
SJD_Toronto
Active Member
Yeah, Brown made a blunder. This will pass.
Seeing that Christine Elliott merely assumed she would be handed the leadership and didn’t fight the way Patrick Brown fought for it, the Tories are better off with Brown in the next election. Elliott lost because she didn't think she has to fight for it and didn't reach out enough to people. Simple as that. Brown is a great organizer and he will out campaign both Wynne and Horwath in the election. Let’s say that Wynne has 4 or 5 campaign stops in a day, Brown will make sure he has 7 or 8 stops in key areas. Heck, during the PC leadership race, there were days when Elliott took off for a vacation. Brown campaigned non-stop and keep organizing with his team, even on Christmas Eve he was campaigning. Brown will be all over Ontario in vital areas when it’s time for the election. Believe it.
That said, no one should count out Wynne just yet. Wynne is a poor politician, yes but she is a good campaigner, for what it’s worth.
steveintoronto
Superstar
Excellent link! Thank you. Some have confused my critiques of the Libs and conditional support for Minnan-Wong as support for the Cons. Far from it, and this quote says it all: (A different "Steve" to me, btw)
[...][Another listener, Steve, also joined the interview mid-way.
"I was saying to myself ' oh gosh, please don't let this be Patrick Brown, please don't let this be Patrick Brown'. At some point in time someone in opposition has to get their act together. This is getting actually scary for me as a voter."][...]
Bingo!
In a way, I have some sympathy for PB on a personal level, but just because someone has overcome (or nearly) a severe handicap doesn't automatically mean that they're safe driving a vehicle...or the Province.
Bad enough with what we have on the Lib side recently. PB is just unable to grasp and articulate extremely important issues, whether he has full control of his speaking faculties or not.
King of Kensington
Senior Member
No, she'd put everyone to sleep.
steveintoronto
Superstar
Yeah, I can't see any advantage to her. All the parties need bright, dynamic, *aware* leaders. Maybe that's just not possible nowadays? The Trumps and Fords are the new norm. God help us...
The OntCons should draft Gordon....whoops....Michael Chong from the Feds, albeit he's far too well-spoken and pragmatic, and doesn't dance the knaughty knee-jerk which is their secret handshake at OntCon HQs.
WislaHD
Superstar
Michael Chong is the Progressive Conservative leader we wish we could have.
adma
Superstar
Just watch people have fun with this
steveintoronto
Superstar
The Big Question has gone semi-official:
I'll comment further, as I'm sure others here will, on who else might be considered, and who can't be. Del Duca, for instance, is toxic. Pupatello appears to be a strong candidate. She'd win an election hands down.
It's reassuring to know the topic is out in the sunshine. Wynne has to go.
https://www.thestar.com/news/queens...who-might-replace-premier-kathleen-wynne.htmlSeven people who might replace Premier Kathleen Wynne
There are whispers at Queen’s Park about possible successors if Wynne’s 25 per cent hydro rebate fails to soothe angry voters.
The job is not open and no one is plotting regicide to trigger a vacancy.
But there are whispers at Queen’s Park about who might replace Premier Kathleen Wynne as Liberal leader if her dramatic 25 per cent hydro rate cut gambit fails to improve the governing party’s popularity.
Asked on Thursday if she will stick around to fight next year’s election, Wynne was firm.
“Yes I am,” the premier told a huge media throng moments after unveiling the largest electricity rate reduction scheme in Ontario history.
Wynne — who succeeded Dalton McGuinty in 2013 and brought the Liberals back from the dead with a majority victory the next year — is resolute about leading her party into another campaign.
“My job is not finished … I’m going to run in the election in 2018,” she said Friday in an interview with Matt Galloway on CBC Radio’s Metro Morning.
Transportation Minister Steven Del Duca is seen with Mayor John Tory in 2016. (Richard Lautens / Toronto Star) | Order this photo
There is, however, mounting pressure on her from within her own party because little-known rookie Progressive Conservative Leader Patrick Brown stubbornly enjoys a double-digit lead in most public opinion polls.
That’s why she stopped Toronto Mayor John Tory’s proposal to toll the Gardiner Expressway and Don Valley Parkway, which was fashionable downtown but hated in the 905 (and opposed by Brown and NDP Leader Andrea Horwath.)
And it’s why she is slashing the hydro rates that are particularly crippling in rural Ontario.
“The connection between those issues is that there is an affordability quotient in each one of them,” the premier, who has been criticized for ignoring pocketbook matters, told Metro Morning.
Last fall, Wynne fought back tears both behind closed doors at a caucus retreat and later in front of delegates at the party’s annual general meeting in Ottawa as she took responsibility for the Liberals’ political woes.
While she is well-regarded by her ministers and MPPs — unlike the introverted McGuinty the sociable premier genuinely enjoys their company — they are mindful that her personal unpopularity could cost them all.
The jangled nerves of many elected members are shared by party insiders who pray the hydro fix is a political panacea.
“I hope this works. If it doesn’t, then I think she will have to do some serious soul-searching after the House rises,” said one senior Liberal, referring to the legislature’s summer break that begins June 1.
“Look, we can’t let the premier take the party down with her,” said another grim-faced top Grit, who also spoke on condition of anonymity in order to discuss internal party machinations.
“The window for making a (leadership) change is narrowing. Fast,” stressed a third high-ranking official.
If Wynne opted to take one for the team this summer, the Liberals — who choose their leaders at delegated conventions — could hold a leadership election in the fall.
That would give a new leader/premier just enough time for a throne speech to outline a fresh Liberal agenda before Christmas and craft an election-friendly budget by the June 7, 2018 campaign.
But who could succeed the battle-tested and formidable Wynne?
Many names are mentioned — quietly — in the corridors of power.
They include:
- Attorney General Yasir Naqvi, a former Liberal party president who represents the riding of Ottawa Centre. Naqvi is especially popular with the Liberals’ youth wing.
(Andrew Vaughan)
- Health Minister Eric Hoskins, the St. Paul’s MPP who backed Wynne after finishing last in the 2013 Liberal leadership contest. A Rhodes scholar, Hoskins is also an Order of Canada recipient for his aid work in overseas war zones.
(Christopher Katsarov)
- Finance Minister Charles Sousa, another 2013 leadership also-ran. Sousa will balance the books this spring and the affable Mississauga South MPP’s seat is crucial in the Grit roadmap to electoral victory next year.
(Darren Calabrese)
- Transportation Minister Steven Del Duca, the Vaughan MPP who was instrumental in derailing the Gardiner/DVP toll proposal. Del Duca is presiding over a massive expansion of public transit, including a subway extension to his 905 riding to open this year.
- Children and Youth Services Minister Michael Coteau, the Don Valley East MPP, who won praise from the parents of autistic children for a plan to improve therapy. Coteau was also a key player in the successful 2015 Pan Am Games in Toronto.
(Todd Korol)
- Education Minister Mitzie Hunter, the Scarborough-Guildwood MPP. Hunter has quietly and effectively inked union contract extensions with teachers through 2019, eliminating a potential electoral headache for the government next year.
(Bernard Weil)
- Former minister Sandra Pupatello, the runner-up to Wynne in the 2013 Liberal race. Pupatello, now a successful businesswoman, is a populist firebrand who carries little of the baggage from McGuinty's scandal-plagued final years and none from the Wynne era.
(Nathan Denette)
So there would be no shortage of candidates if the premier’s job is vacated.
I'll comment further, as I'm sure others here will, on who else might be considered, and who can't be. Del Duca, for instance, is toxic. Pupatello appears to be a strong candidate. She'd win an election hands down.
It's reassuring to know the topic is out in the sunshine. Wynne has to go.
salsa
Senior Member
And she has to go right now, not after the election.
BurlOak
Senior Member
Why would Wynne go?
We went through this exact same scenario 4 years ago. The old, tired, corrupt, out-of-touch leader stepped down and a new face was put in charge. Now, the exact same thing is happening. It is obvious to anyone paying attention that the problem is the Party and not the leader. The policies of the Party are being felt and that is the problem.
Would the public be stupid enough to fall for the same trick again?
Of course - but don't expect anything to get better.
steveintoronto
Superstar
Why did the chicken cross the pot?
steveintoronto
Superstar
This might be just as apt in a few other threads, I thought there was one on expressway tolls specifically, but can't seem to find it, but it pertains just as much or more in this thread, as it epitomizes the duplicity and double-dealing of Wynne and her regime of stripped wingnuts, no matter which way they're threaded.
I won't bother to reference or link the City of Toronto Act, will do so if challenged, it's common knowledge now for most readers as to the enabling the City to charge for road tolls, or 'taxes' in the Act, but only with the grace of the Premier via the Crown's rep at QP. (Lieutenant Governor in Council IIRC)
Well, perhaps Toronto should call them "tourist fees"....as the term "tourist" is not defined in the Toronto Act, in fact it's not even present in the Act, in any form, unless my page search function is faulty. I'll look under other legislation later.
It's an interesting point, because Niagara Falls businesses are charging a "tourist tax" on visitors. Rather than detail this, I refer you to:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/niagara-falls-tourism-fee-marketplace-1.4001972 and follow the links to the program and episode on-line, and *listen closely* to what Minister McMahon https://news.ontario.ca/profiles/en/eleanor-mcmahon has to say on it.
Just had a chance to check the Ont Tourism Act
https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90t16 no mention of fees to second or third parties, or taxes. Fees are only itemized in terms of applying for permits.
This is notable, as if you watch the snarky retort of Min McMahon to the CBC Marketplace investigators, applying that fee is nothing to do with the Province.
So be it!
Then Toronto can charge daily visitors for the use of expressways.
The Tourism Act doesn't define what "tourists" are, only "tourist establishments":
[...]
“tourist establishment” means any premises operated to provide sleeping accommodation for the travelling public or sleeping accommodation for the use of the public engaging in recreational activities, and includes the services and facilities in connection with which sleeping accommodation is provided, but does not include,
(a) a camp operated by a charitable corporation approved under the Charitable Institutions Act, or
[...]
(b) a summer camp within the meaning of the regulations made under the Health Protection and Promotion Act, or
(c) a club owned by its members and operated without profit or gain. (“établissement touristique”) R.S.O. 1990, c. T.16, s. 1.
[...]
However, McMahon needs her head shaken, she was quite the &$#*) when finally forced into talking with the CBC investigators, an attitude we see *all too often* with the Wynne Dynasty (in all fairness, Wynne has no copyright on this) and if she's competent to be the Tourism Minister, then she should know the Act like the back of her withered hand:
[...]
Investigations
2. The Minister may by order appoint one or more persons to investigate, inquire into and report to him or her upon any matter connected with or affecting the tourist industry, including accommodation, facilities, or services offered to tourists or the advertising or publicizing thereof, or of the resources, attractions or advantages of Ontario, and, for the purposes of the investigation and inquiry, any person making the investigation has the powers of a commission under Part II of the Public Inquiries Act, which Part applies to the investigation as if it were an inquiry under that Act. R.S.O. 1990, c. T.16, s. 2.
[...]
https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90t16
So I would suggest that until McMahon and her minions can figure out the Law, Toronto can use the same "fee" or "tax" or "levy" for expressways.
I won't bother to reference or link the City of Toronto Act, will do so if challenged, it's common knowledge now for most readers as to the enabling the City to charge for road tolls, or 'taxes' in the Act, but only with the grace of the Premier via the Crown's rep at QP. (Lieutenant Governor in Council IIRC)
Well, perhaps Toronto should call them "tourist fees"....as the term "tourist" is not defined in the Toronto Act, in fact it's not even present in the Act, in any form, unless my page search function is faulty. I'll look under other legislation later.
It's an interesting point, because Niagara Falls businesses are charging a "tourist tax" on visitors. Rather than detail this, I refer you to:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/niagara-falls-tourism-fee-marketplace-1.4001972 and follow the links to the program and episode on-line, and *listen closely* to what Minister McMahon https://news.ontario.ca/profiles/en/eleanor-mcmahon has to say on it.
Just had a chance to check the Ont Tourism Act
https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90t16 no mention of fees to second or third parties, or taxes. Fees are only itemized in terms of applying for permits.
This is notable, as if you watch the snarky retort of Min McMahon to the CBC Marketplace investigators, applying that fee is nothing to do with the Province.
So be it!
Then Toronto can charge daily visitors for the use of expressways.
The Tourism Act doesn't define what "tourists" are, only "tourist establishments":
[...]
“tourist establishment” means any premises operated to provide sleeping accommodation for the travelling public or sleeping accommodation for the use of the public engaging in recreational activities, and includes the services and facilities in connection with which sleeping accommodation is provided, but does not include,
(a) a camp operated by a charitable corporation approved under the Charitable Institutions Act, or
[...]
(b) a summer camp within the meaning of the regulations made under the Health Protection and Promotion Act, or
(c) a club owned by its members and operated without profit or gain. (“établissement touristique”) R.S.O. 1990, c. T.16, s. 1.
[...]
However, McMahon needs her head shaken, she was quite the &$#*) when finally forced into talking with the CBC investigators, an attitude we see *all too often* with the Wynne Dynasty (in all fairness, Wynne has no copyright on this) and if she's competent to be the Tourism Minister, then she should know the Act like the back of her withered hand:
[...]
Investigations
2. The Minister may by order appoint one or more persons to investigate, inquire into and report to him or her upon any matter connected with or affecting the tourist industry, including accommodation, facilities, or services offered to tourists or the advertising or publicizing thereof, or of the resources, attractions or advantages of Ontario, and, for the purposes of the investigation and inquiry, any person making the investigation has the powers of a commission under Part II of the Public Inquiries Act, which Part applies to the investigation as if it were an inquiry under that Act. R.S.O. 1990, c. T.16, s. 2.
[...]
https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90t16
So I would suggest that until McMahon and her minions can figure out the Law, Toronto can use the same "fee" or "tax" or "levy" for expressways.
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King of Kensington
Senior Member
Michael Chong is far more loved by Liberals, NDPers and Greens than he is among Conservatives. He's just too much of a Red Tory for the membership.
Juan_Lennon416
Senior Member
Replacing Wynne is not good enough. The Liberal party needs to lose, work things out on the sidelines and then come back stronger in the election after next year.
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Videodrome
Senior Member
https://www.thestar.com/news/queens...is-being-challenged-for-his-niagara-seat.html
The co-chair of SoCon kid's by-election campaign is challenging him for the nomination in the redrawn riding.
The co-chair of SoCon kid's by-election campaign is challenging him for the nomination in the redrawn riding.